Roman numerals and practicing triads in the major scale

[FenderB]

F# is not in the key of C major, so it must be DFA -D minor triad.

Whichever chord root note you choose, build your chords using only notes in the C major scale.
This restriction is what forces the chords of c major to be either major or minor.
That's "why" the diatonic pattern is I ii iii VI iv vii (dim) for any major scale.

Ah, I get it. You can only use the notes that are in the scale you are practicing so by following the V-ii-iii-IV-V-vi-viidim pattern that only allows you to use those notes. Thanks mambo4, it suddenly dawned on my when I read your post, with the help of Malcom, ferceol. Thanks all I appreciate your time and trouble.

 

[FenderB]

OK a major and minor key (the chords in the key) will have three major chords and three minor chords plus one diminished chord. Not all chords in a key are major or minor, there will be three major, three minor and one diminished in any seven note/chord major or minor key. In the following chart the minor chords are shown with lower case Roman numbers, i.e. ii, iii, vi, etc.

C major scale notes: C D E F G A B C

• Major key chord sequence: Maj min min Maj Maj min dim

I ii iii IV V vi vii
Cmaj Dmin Emin Fmaj Gmaj Amin Bdim
Cmaj7 Dmin7 Emin7 Fmaj7 G7 Amin7 Bm7b5
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

C natural minor scale notes: C D Eb F G Ab Bb

• Natural minor key chord sequence: min dim maj min min maj maj

i iidim III iv v VI VII
Cmin Ddim Ebmaj Fmin Gmin Abmaj Bbmaj
Cmin7 Dm7b5 Ebmaj7 Fmin7 Gmin7 Abmaj7 Bb7

This site should help. Chords In The Key Of C Make yourself a chart of all the major keys and then another of all the minor keys. The making of the chart will end up helping you see all this clearly.

Good luck.

Thanks a lot Malcom, I think I got it. My trouble was I couldn't find any explanation for the Roman numeral pattern and it didn't dawn on me that it kept you in the scale you were practicing or using. Thank you.

 

[FenderB]

Just being open and up front here, but reading your posts, you have a few of what we called in the Navy, "gross conceptual errors".

You should probably go find a real, live human who understands this stuff. Like at a community college or music store. Sit with them and get a good firm understanding of what's happening here. I don't think you're' gonna get that full understanding through an internet forum. But believe me, you will get plenty of advice. Stand by...

I have a basic understanding of theory I just couldn't get my head around why the Roman numeral pattern was used. After some great explanations from TB members I get it. Thanks for your help.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I have a basic understanding of theory I just couldn't get my head around why the Roman numeral pattern was used. After some great explanations from TB members I get it. Thanks for your help.

OK if you say so. Glad you got it sorted.

 

[HolmeBass]

Malcolm why do you put minor triads into a major scale? If the major scale is made up of all major notes and the minor scale is all minor notes so why do we mix minor triads with major triads when practicing triads in a major scale?

The harmonized triads of the major scale include minor triads and one diminished triad. But the scale that relates all of them together, and to the key center, is that particular key's major scale.

 

[vickerekes]

I'm not much of a wordsmith so I hope I can get this across. I have a rudimentary knowledge of music theory so I've been trying to wrap my head around the reason to use Roman numerals when expressing chords, I hope I got that right. I understand the maj-min-min-maj-maj-min-dim thing but I don't understand the purpose.

The second part of my question is, when practicing major scale triads do you follow the I ii iii IV V vi dim pattern or do you play major 3rds all the way through the scale? For instance C major scale, would you play the D as D-F#-A or D-F-A? Being root-maj 3rd-5th or root-min 3rd-fifth.
Hope this makes sense.
Jack

This should help some... have fun.

 

[Drucifer]

CDEFCAB= C maj scale.

Typo

 

[Two-Spirit]

You can fit a lot on a page with roman numerals and they use the numerals every school boys knows. So, it's just a matter of knowing your scales.

 

[gfh218]

To help you a bit further....

The first line (left) from the bottom up gives you....CEGBDFA.

The second line from the left and from bottom to top is...DFACEGB...etc.

It's all the same, depending where you start. When you have all 7 notes, you have ALL the chords of the key in1 chord. For instance, in C, you have a C major 7 9 11 13. Going up the the scale, D minor7 9 11 13, E minor7 b9 11 b13, etc, hope it makes sense. Easier way to consider it is: starting on C; Cmajor 7; then a D minor. Always the scale degree and 9 11 13 extensions are the next chord of the scale

 

[fearceol]

Typo

Thanks. Well spotted. I have corrected.

 

[FenderB]

It's all the same, depending where you start. When you have all 7 notes, you have ALL the chords of the key in1 chord. For instance, in C, you have a C major 7 9 11 13. Going up the the scale, D minor7 9 11 13, E minor7 b9 11 b13, etc, hope it makes sense. Easier way to consider it is: starting on C; Cmajor 7; then a D minor. Always the scale degree and 9 11 13 extensions are the next chord of the scale

I'm afraid I don't understand what you are trying to tell me.

 

[mambo4]

I'm afraid I don't understand what you are trying to tell me.

You already know your triads are Root, 3rd, 5th.
You may see that chords can be made by "stacking thirds"
aka "skipping every other note" from the root:
R 2 3 4 5 the little numbers are tones we skip over

You can extend that beyond the 5th to build 7th chords
R 2 3 4 5 6 7

And if you play jazz ( or are similarly mentally unstable ) you can keep going,
past the octave, into extensions
R 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 8 9 10 11 12 13

The thing about extensions is: there's only 7 notes in a scale.
By extending on to 9 11 13, we are actually jumping up an octave
and playing notes we "skipped" in the lower octave
... 8 9 10 11 12 13
... R 2 3 4 5 6

9th = 2nd, one octave higher
11th = 4th, one octave higher
13th= 6th, one octave higher

so the "chord" C major 7 9 11 13 actually would contain all the notes of a c major scale.
It will also sound like @ss unless carefully voiced.

If you got all that, then finally: Since the chunk 9 11 13 are enharmonic with 2 4 6
It actually represents a triad whose root is the 9th(2nd) in previous chord.
Thus C maj 7 9 11 13 = triads C maj + D min

Isn't math fun?

--
Ultimately I wouldn't worry too much about it.
You asked about triads, and jackasses like me
are throwing 7th chords and extensions at you,
which you can tackle later, after you sort out the triads.