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Roscoe Club

#3,222
Gard said:
...if it feels good, it IS good. The measurements are of little real-world value IMHO.
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I agree but what you're saying is 'there is no substitute for experience.'
If I don't have your level of experience and I am trying to learn by doing, having some objective measurements to get me in the ballpark of what _should_ be right can be a good thing.
 
#3,223
ArtechnikA said:
I agree but what you're saying is 'there is no substitute for experience.'
If I don't have your level of experience and I am trying to learn by doing, having some objective measurements to get me in the ballpark of what _should_ be right can be a good thing.
Click to expand...

I'm following the idea here, but the reality is good is good applies to the most grizzled vet and the rank amateur. If it feels "good" to YOU, then it is. Your definition of "good" will evolve with your level of ability both as a player and as a setup guy - one tends to inform the other. I always teach students the bare bones important stuff about how to set up and properly maintain their bass, then tell them "you have to get it right for YOU!". I answer questions from there forward, but otherwise, I don't touch the bass.

My attitude may seem a bit flippant, but it isn't - I strongly believe that every player should have a good working knowledge of how this all works, and have their own way of setting their instrument up to fit them best. There is no "best" or "correct" setup, as long as you don't do a WRONG one (poor intonation, significant backbow/upbow, strings far too high or low, etc). Measurements may be good for you, but your measurements might be complete garbage for the next guy - everyone has their own touch, and should set their bass up accordingly (or have it set up accordingly), so I really just don't CARE how high or low the string is above the 12th/24th/whatever fret, because it doesn't make any difference to me. I get it as low as I can without a lot of buzzing happening when I play at a "normal" exertion, and that's it - how high is it? Don't know, and don't really care either. It's right for how it feels, not what a feeler gauge or set of calipers says. :)

(Please take all of this with the understanding that I'm not putting anyone else's views down or saying "you're wrong!", just that my focus is always on the playability, and you can't measure that for each instrument or person - it will be different on every single bass to some degree, and "good" will be different to every single player to the same degree.)
 
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#3,224
Gard said:
...the reality is good is good applies to the most grizzled vet and the rank amateur. If it feels "good" to YOU, then it is.
Click to expand...
Not accusing you of being flippant and I get what you are saying.
But I think it may be hard for you to remember a time when you didn't have your level of experience working with these instruments every day. It may feel good to me - but I may want it to be as good as possible and not know how to get there.

Let me give you an example from my sporty-car experience. We'd see lots of guys new to Porsches who would go on about how good their new-to-them car handled - compared to their old Camaro or whatever. But it was clear that the tires were old, the alignment was bad, and the corner weighting was way off. We'd tell them who to consult to get the suspension set up and they'd come back to the next event, amazed at how much better it was even though they thought it was amazing before.

This part is key:
There is no "best" or "correct" setup, as long as you don't do a WRONG one (poor intonation, significant backbow/upbow, strings far too high or low, etc).
Click to expand...
You can see those things at a glance. I might need a more objective reference until I know what I'm doing.

I used to see (and own...) cars that ran -almost- right when in reality, almost everything was wrong a little, and some other tunable part or system had been adjusted to correct the adverse symptom of the previous bad adjustment. It took returning everything back to factory settings, finding the -real- problem and fixing that, then tuning everything else into harmony.

I think I have a string or two too low. But I'm not completely sure if I have the neck set wrong and 4 strings too high to compensate, or if it's just 2 strings too low. Every time there's a discussion like this I learn a little more about -how- to adjust things so they're "good for me."
 
#3,225
ArtechnikA said:
Not accusing you of being flippant and I get what you are saying.
But I think it may be hard for you to remember a time when you didn't have your level of experience working with these instruments every day. It may feel good to me - but I may want it to be as good as possible and not know how to get there.

Let me give you an example from my sporty-car experience. We'd see lots of guys new to Porsches who would go on about how good their new-to-them car handled - compared to their old Camaro or whatever. But it was clear that the tires were old, the alignment was bad, and the corner weighting was way off. We'd tell them who to consult to get the suspension set up and they'd come back to the next event, amazed at how much better it was even though they thought it was amazing before.

This part is key: You can see those things at a glance. I might need a more objective reference until I know what I'm doing.

I used to see (and own...) cars that ran -almost- right when in reality, almost everything was wrong a little, and some other tunable part or system had been adjusted to correct the adverse symptom of the previous bad adjustment. It took returning everything back to factory settings, finding the -real- problem and fixing that, then tuning everything else into harmony.

I think I have a string or two too low. But I'm not completely sure if I have the neck set wrong and 4 strings too high to compensate, or if it's just 2 strings too low. Every time there's a discussion like this I learn a little more about -how- to adjust things so they're "good for me."
Click to expand...

It's all good, I'm not saying "don't ask", you should - you have to at first! I'm just saying that trying to make your bass set up each time to the exact same number is not only unlikely to work, it's impossible to get to happen. You can use numbers as a "ballpark" if necessary, but they can't be the only measuring you do. Frankly I literally NEVER used measurements, not from the first time. I just got some direction from guys that really knew their craft, and then started fiddling around until I got it sorted out.

For feedback on my setups, as Ryan L....he just got my old 6, which I did a full restring & setup on prior to shipping to him. :cool: :bassist:
 
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#3,226
I didn't know much when I started. The truss rod is the scariest adjustment I suppose, but as long as you do it a 1/4 turn at a time, you won't "break" anything. Like Gard said, I don't know what anyone else thinks about my set ups, but they seem to work for me, and that's the bottom line. I tried to do the measurement thing but it didn't take long to say screw it, if I like it it's fine.

I am a bitch about intonation though. I want my entire fingerboard to be in tune (as in tune as equal temperament will allow) so I work that one a lot. No one will accuse me of being out of tune. Well, they can accuse, but I'll whip out my tuner and educate them.
 
#3,227
Gard said:
It's all good, I'm not saying "don't ask", you should - you have to at first! I'm just saying that trying to make your bass set up each time to the exact same number is not only unlikely to work, it's impossible to get to happen. You can use numbers as a "ballpark" if necessary, but they can't be the only measuring you do. Frankly I literally NEVER used measurements, not from the first time. I just got some direction from guys that really knew their craft, and then started fiddling around until I got it sorted out.

For feedback on my setups, as Ryan L....he just got my old 6, which I did a full restring & setup on prior to shipping to him. :cool: :bassist:
Click to expand...

Man Gard! Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers so!
I guess you could say that I setup basses per ISO 9001 and you set them up by the seat of your paints!:roflmao:

I also didn't say that I set it at a specific height and whether it works there or not I leave it. I just have a defined starting point and tweak it from there.

And I'll just say one more thing and then I'll hush. If you setup a bass (fretted or fretless) to a specific PROVEN measured height setting and it doesn't play good. Something is wrong with the bass (nut, bad fret leveling, twisted neck, relief setting or the truing of the finger board).

OK, one more thing ........
This isn't my first rodeo either. I've done both guitar and bass setups out of local music stores for over 32 years. Just saying ...........:)

I love you bro!:D
 
#3,229
I've been setting up my own basses for years. I never measure!! Straighten the neck (I look up the neck from the bridge toward the nut). Then drop the strings down so that I get some buzzing, then gradually bring them up. I may have to tweak the neck once or twice more while adjusting the string height. It's a dance b/w the two. Then I'll check the intonation.
 
#3,230
Gard said:
...s'all good Joe! :)

I never did the "measure" thing, just went with what worked - again, not saying it is right wrong or indifferent, just my philosophy! Yours is valid for you - I just don't think you need the numbers.
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I hear you Gard. I've played your basses and they all play good. I just think that my way gives a bit more of a controlled setup for the guys that are a bit less experienced.

There's definitely more than one way to skin a cat! :)
 
#3,232
I am with you Gard.... 30 years of playing and I wouldn't know what to measure on my bass if someone asked me to. People ask me about radius and nut width and weight and I am like man you are asking the wrong person. I set up my own basses and the only time I even look at string height is if it feels high.... then I just lower it util it plays right and doesn't buzz. Nothing against the guys who do all that. Just not my thing. I have three Jeeps that I love and am really into too, but aside from knowing what size engine is in each one and which side the gas tank is on.... I am clueless. I like driving them, not working on them... I guess I am the same way with basses.
 
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#3,233
Cool! I guess that we've debating the setup thing enough (again)! :)

back to the subject of Roscoe's .......

Did you guys see the new tops that Greg has selected for his next wave of Roscoe's? If these don't generate new Roscoe GAS than nothing will! Greg stated that he ordered 10 new Roscoe's Wednesday! :woot:
Those are going to be some killer looking Roscoe's for sure!!! :bassist:

http://www.talkbass.com/threads/a-little-roscoe-fun.951123/page-30

Rocket Roscoe orders here: http://www.rocketmusic.net/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=ROSO&keywords=all
 
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#3,235
I'm a little late to the setup discussion, but I can, and will, testify that Gard is a master at setting up a bass. The 6 that I bought from him has perfectly low action, without a hint of fret buzz.

I've been doing my own setups for many years now, and I guess I never even considered measuring anything. I have always just tweaked basses until I got them to play the way I liked them to. Simple, really.
 
#3,236
Ryan L. said:
I'm a little late to the setup discussion, but I can, and will, testify that Gard is a master at setting up a bass. The 6 that I bought from him has perfectly low action, without a hint of fret buzz.

I've been doing my own setups for many years now, and I guess I never even considered measuring anything. I have always just tweaked basses until I got them to play the way I liked them to. Simple, really.
Click to expand...

Both of my Century basses have incredible action! The Fretless is perfect and so effortlessly to play, same with the fretted. I have to admit, better then my Sadowsky basses, and that says allot!
 
#3,237
I've had the process of "doing a set-up" explained several different ways by several different people (three of which I'd not hesitate to call "experts"). The last step from everybody is alway "play it and if it doesn't feel right tweak it". The "feel right" is up to the owner, not the luthier.

I have measurements of the "feel right" set-up for all my instruments. It took less than one minute to record the data. What that lets me do is provide that data to anyone as a starting point. Once it is set-up to those measurement, the "tweak time" required goes way down. "Tweaking" is not eliminated, but it Is way easier and consistent.

That's just what works for me.

Now, how about something easy to agree on like making basses out of a pine 2x4 from Lowes because tone woods are really a conspiracy propagated the elitist hoards of boutique bass owners. Yeah, you don't need real strings just use some fishing line (no difference in tone at all) :cool::cool:
 
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