Yep. I believe back when Jimmy Haslip played fretless he used a lined fretless. Good enough for Jimmy, good enough for me.
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Roscoe Club
- Thread starter JOME77
- Start date
Yep. I believe back when Jimmy Haslip played fretless he used a lined fretless. Good enough for Jimmy, good enough for me.
No one is knocking using lined fretless, just saying that you can't rely COMPLETELY on it for your intonation points. I think the biggest issue with proper intonation in live settings is more just HEARING yourself than anything else. The lines or side dots are just a good starting point.
I've used both extensively (I am almost exclusively a fretless guy), and the single biggest asset I have for my intonation on a gig is this:
I've used both extensively (I am almost exclusively a fretless guy), and the single biggest asset I have for my intonation on a gig is this:
It can definitely be difficult to hear yourself live which goes to my argument that you shouldn't use just your ears. If you use the lines and dots you will most likely be closer to being in tune than just blindly playing, relying only on your ears, which can't hear in certain live settings anyway. At that point you're playing blind and deaf which on fretless probably won't work out very well.
CrashClint
I Play Bass therefore I Am
Those are sweet cabinets and very hard to find.
No one is knocking using lined fretless, just saying that you can't rely COMPLETELY on it for your intonation points. I think the biggest issue with proper intonation in live settings is more just HEARING yourself than anything else. The lines or side dots are just a good starting point.
I've used both extensively (I am almost exclusively a fretless guy), and the single biggest asset I have for my intonation on a gig is this:
CrashClint
I Play Bass therefore I Am
My argument is that if you're going to play fretless live, you are responsible for making sure you can clearly hear yourself, and a good reference for pitch. Dots and lines are good for guidelines, but they will not get your intonation perfect. If you are unsure, or cannot hear well for some reason, play fretted or pray you're close enough.
Again, once I made the commitment to bald boards, one of the first purchases I made was a monitor-style cabinet, so I was not dependent on anyone else for hearing myself. No judgement in that, just stating what I felt was my responsibility as a fretless bassist.
I definitely depend on the dots but as it's unlined, it's all I've got ;-)...
And yes, they can be hard to see in the dark, which is why I'm very seriously considering LumInLay glow-dots. Wish I had more confidence in my ability to precisely drill out the existing side markers...
And not for nothing was one of my first investments a good set of InEar monitors. I have been lucky and not needed them yet.
As has been noted, one of the problems with -any- lined fretless is that the line isn't always perfect intonation - just as frets are not always located for perfect intonation (that tempered-scale thing). With fretless, we can improve on that, but it means stopping the string someplace other than the line.
I agree, the lines or dots won't get you exactly in tune. It depends on where the your finger makes contact with the string and stops it in relation to where the actual pitch is. The good thing about bass and the nature of low frequencies and the human hearing is that when playing in the lower register you can be close to being in tune and nobody will be none the wiser if you're just a little out.
For sure - lines and/or dots are just a guide. Hearing yourself - and your relationship pitch-wise to others - is a MUST for fretless playing. My only gig these days is at church (Silent stage/IEM/Killer FOH) so hearing is never a problem. I dial in my own IEM via my iPhone and play charts via my iPad.
I go back and forth on fretted "vs" fretless. Fretless definitely "works" for my situation. I do have to "work" more on fretless than fretted as I don't practice as much as I should. Some days I'm just lazy and bring the fretted. Some days it's more appropriate. I can make my frettless sound "fretted" so it's not that. At times I like the feel of fretless better, but sometimes, I just like to grab good ol' #1 (the fretted Koa 5) and just play.
I've had that bass for almost 4 years now (a lifetime if you know me) and I can basically play it without thinking, looking, whatever. Big jumps, register changes, all just happen. Tone is there. Feel is there. Looks are there. If it ain't broke...
I go back and forth on fretted "vs" fretless. Fretless definitely "works" for my situation. I do have to "work" more on fretless than fretted as I don't practice as much as I should. Some days I'm just lazy and bring the fretted. Some days it's more appropriate. I can make my frettless sound "fretted" so it's not that. At times I like the feel of fretless better, but sometimes, I just like to grab good ol' #1 (the fretted Koa 5) and just play.
I've had that bass for almost 4 years now (a lifetime if you know me) and I can basically play it without thinking, looking, whatever. Big jumps, register changes, all just happen. Tone is there. Feel is there. Looks are there. If it ain't broke...
Equal temperament allows us to play in all keys but it also means that we are a little bit out of tune with a fretted instrument. That's why when you set your intonation, you usually try to get the open string and 12 fret harmonic to match as perfectly as possible (there are other methods but this is the one that I tend to use). Once you have the intonation set, try using your tuner all over the fretboard and you'll see that the notes are out of tune by varying degrees. This is why a fretless has an advantage (if you have good ears).
Visual cues are common (lined or unlined). Even upright players use visual cues as there are natural markings along the neck. They also have the advantage of physical cues b/c the neck gets thicker as they move and muscle memory gives them the cue with the thickness of the neck. Even Ron Carter is out of tune at times. It's the nature of the beast.
Trombone players (the fretless horn) have both physical and visual cues as to where the slide is in relation to their body and parts of the horn.
If you're so out of tune on every note, then perhaps you're not ready for prime time with the fretless. There's no shame in that but sometimes trial by fire is the way to go. If you still can't get it then people may not want to continue playing with you if you insist on playing fretless.
So lined or unlined, it doesn't matter. This isn't about that. Blackening out the side markers is not going to help. Try working with a drone note while playing scales and arpeggios. It just takes time . . . and lots of it.
CrashClint
I Play Bass therefore I Am
I ordered a pair of the 1964 Adel A4 IEMs on Black Friday. I am hoping to have them by the end of the week but it could be next week, they still have to go through buffing and final QC. I have a Phil Jones Bass Buddy I have been using but my old M-Audio M-10 IEMs. I am really enjoying the Fretless, the tone is amazing so I plan on sticking with it this time.
There is no better sounding or playing fretless than a Roscoe. The action on mine may be too low. I think my neck moved just a bit with the weather change. I may have to try and tweak it a bit. First time I've had to touch the truss rod on a Roscoe for me.
I haven't been playing mine as much as I thought I would. Nothing against the bass at all, just thought I'd use it more for church but I seem to grab my #1 more often than not.
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The weather has been crazy this year. 70ºF with rain on Christmas day. Now that's perfectly normal for San Diego, where I lived for a long time, but Philadelphia? Tonight it will be 10.
I've finally got the perfect amount of Mwah on C, G, and sometimes D. I think the neck is where I need it. Might bring down the saddles on B, E, and A - but not much.
Open Mike Blues Jam tonight - I'll be there with the fretless SKB 6 just like always...
songwriter21
I have an obsession for wood. The musical kind.
We were thinking that very same thing this time last year. Then we were hit with record snow.
CrashClint
I Play Bass therefore I Am
I filling in for a church in Durham, NC on Sunday. I just ran through the 5 songs on fretless and was pretty pleased. I just about have the songs down with a glance at the music so by Sunday I should be comfortable enough to add some mwah flavor. I will carry Lily (shell pink LG3005) as my backup.
