Rumble 200 turned out to be eggshell fragile

[Lowandfat]

Oh, and packing lessons.

 

[lfmn16]

No one posting at this point has read the thread.

Welcome to TB.

Yea, some people.

I am not even going to bother to read that, because you obviously haven't even bothered to read the thread. Lighten up Francis.

Everybody doesn't want to read 3 or 4 pages of posts before they post something. Also, we have the ability to edit our posts. If you feel an important detail is being missed, you can always add it to the original post.

And for the record, you're wrong, I read the whole thread, so lighten up Francis.

 

[Mike Whitfield]

How many trace layers is the circuit board? More than two and it's scrap if it's cracked.

What's the tech's labor rate? It might be fixable, but is it worth fixing?

This. Man with those qualifications ain't working for ten bucks an hour.

 

[Mike Whitfield]

PCBs are not "brittle" or "fragile" if the designer chooses better quality materials. .062" FR-4 material, double sided with plated holes is amazingly robust. Traces do not have to be thin nor do pads have to be small of the designer prioritizes their layout for robustness.

A well designed, well laid out, well constructed PCB based amp is generally more reliable and robust than a hand wired amp, especially when built point to point. Not by a small margin either.

If Fender was going to spend more money on the PCB, they wouldn't have Jacks coming off the board. That's an obvious weak spot because an external force will be transmitted directly to the PCB. The Fender Rumble series is designed to give great performance at great prices, which it generally delivers. A Rumble is never going to have the durability of an old American-built Peavey; it's designed to be generally stout enough while being light, expertly designed and affordably priced. Two of those goals preclude beefing up every possible mode of failure. We get what we pay for, and every design has compromises. I think Fender's done an amazing job within those compromises.

 

[SoulReflection]

With all this talk about egos, I am struck by the fact that when something bad happens, it's always someone else's fault. Also, some people think their opinion is the only correct one that counts...others are not entitled to theirs.

 

[PaulCISSA]

A well designed, well laid out, well constructed PCB based amp is generally more reliable and robust than a hand wired amp, especially when built point to point. Not by a small margin either.

Hard to disagree with this. Unfortunately, I see more value-engineering find it’s way to market simply driven by thin product profits. The balance between units sold and failure rates always drives the cost to produce. I’m sure this instance of failure isn’t even a blip on QA radar and most of the boards will last long beyond a useful lifetime. But I still like my user interfaces isolated..

 

[tom dicus]

So far the vote in this thread that the 210 Rumble 500 sounds weak is 2-1, and I am not "lashing out". When I test drove the Rumble 500, having owned both a 12 and a 15 Rumble, it farted out at an embarrassingly low SPL, and had none of the beef or warmth of the other two combos. There are thousands who rave about Hartke Transporter 210s, too, but "use what I use, it's awesome!" is not always the best advice.

I had a Rumble 500 head with 2-410 Rumble cabs. My 200c with a 115 extension cab sounds a great deal better so I sold the 500. Sorry yours went by way of the Dodo. Mine has been bumped around literally for a couple years now with no problems. Of course, I have been wary about bumping into jacks for years so have always avoided getting anything close to them. Perhaps my anal retentivness has finally paid off.
Cheers and good luck with the modifications. It actually sounds fun!

 

[JakobT]

PCBs are not "brittle" or "fragile" if the designer chooses better quality materials. .062" FR-4 material, double sided with plated holes is amazingly robust. Traces do not have to be thin nor do pads have to be small of the designer prioritizes their layout for robustness.

A well designed, well laid out, well constructed PCB based amp is generally more reliable and robust than a hand wired amp, especially when built point to point. Not by a small margin either.

@agedhorse, I bow to your superior knowledge.

 

[Passinwind]

A small PA cab slid into the back of my Rumble 200 and BARELY nicked the extension speaker jack. From 5ft you can't even tell it's been touched. Well, that Rumble 200 is now a paperweight. That tiny blow that didn't even cause any cosmetic damage, cracked the freaking board rendering it totally DOA.

Which board? The power module doesn't have external jacks directly mounted to it, so I'm confused as to exactly which PCB is broken. It seems that quite a few people call the power module boards motherboards (which seems a bit wrong to me, not that it matters much), just want to make sure I'm on the same page here.

 

[Lowandfat]

Not sure, I will see if I can get a pic with it opened up.

 

[elgranluis]

Yes, low quality boards, and poor design based more on cost than any other factor. My guy is a certified tech for a dozen high end makers, and is known all over the country. If you include rebuilding Mac amps, expand that to the world. Glad you think you know not only more than him with your BS armchair diagnostics, but even what he is thinking when inspecting the damage. You don't know him, you don't know me, and you have even less an idea of our working relationship. Mike will fix anything I bring him, IF he thinks it is worth spending the money fixing. Not because it is "below him". Replacing the board would be half the price of the combo. No thanks. He even refused cash for the time it took to find out the board was toast. That's what any reputable repair center should do. You can take your gear you earn your living from to DVD-fixer guy. I'll stick with certified industry pros, with whom I have decades of interactions, thanks. Your presumptuousness is only surpassed by your arrogance.

You got a bit carried away lol!

I’ll rephrase my words : please take your amp to any electronics enthusiast that can fix a broken solder trace.

We can agree in something: “mike” simply “ doesn’t think it is worth his time “ to repair your amp.

PM me for my credentials.

 

[elgranluis]

Also, whoever in here was the "Mind Reader" that not only passed judgement on a tech he's never met, but somehow "knew" why he wouldn't replace the component - you need some kind of award or something for that post.
.

That was probably me lol. Fixing a broken board is as simple as bridging the broken copper traces, which is a Pain TBH.

Now , a “tech” that can pass judgment on a design engineer, and say that something broke due to “bad design / quality”.. well : can the tech tell us if the amp met the standard that it was designed/ built to ? Quality means that it either met those standards , or it didn’t. The design of the amp (I’m sure )has no specification in regards of “the PCB whitsanding a direct blow to the jack”

 

[elgranluis]

If it’s a multilayer board in that amp then a cracked board isn’t going to be fixable.

I agree

 

[pie_man_25]

Re: the op. What are you doing with all the remaining electronics and the driver?

 

[fdeck]

Re: the op. What are you doing with all the remaining electronics and the driver?

Bidding war!

By the way, I don't know if it's the same amp, but there's a Rumble head in the gut pic thread:

Amp Guts Photos - Official Thread - Lets see those pics

 

[pie_man_25]

Bidding war!

By the way, I don't know if it's the same amp, but there's a Rumble head in the gut pic thread:

Amp Guts Photos - Official Thread - Lets see those pics

If you want it, it's yours, I'm really just asking because... I dunno it just seems dumb to take an amp damaged in a freak accident and just let all the useable pieces go to waste

 

[fdeck]

If you want it, it's yours, I'm really just asking because... I dunno it just seems dumb to take an amp damaged in a freak accident and just let all the useable pieces go to waste

Nah, I need another project like I need a hole in the head. But I agree with you about making sure it gets properly recycled.

 

[pie_man_25]

Nah, I need another project like I need a hole in the head. But I agree with you about making sure it gets properly recycled.

I hear that. Too many things on the go, not enough space, I could imagine one could do some cool things with some time, some bits of amp and a speaker. Granted, the amp bits would take a lot of reading to get something useful.

 

[byacey]

That was probably me lol. Fixing a broken board is as simple as bridging the broken copper traces, which is a Pain TBH.

Now , a “tech” that can pass judgment on a design engineer, and say that something broke due to “bad design / quality”.. well : can the tech tell us if the amp met the standard that it was designed/ built to ? Quality means that it either met those standards , or it didn’t. The design of the amp (I’m sure )has no specification in regards of “the PCB whitsanding a direct blow to the jack”

Techs often see folly that designers overlook. Today I was over at my dad's and he asked me to put away a Crate guitar amp that he had sitting in his shop. When I picked it up, I noticed that it had a level control knob for the line output sticking way out from the back panel, just waiting for something to shear it off.

I thought if I had a hand in designing it, I would have located the control closer to the cabinet edge where it would be better protected and use a low profile knob. However, when the guy was designing this PC board, I doubt he was thinking of such an event taking place.

 

[Mike Whitfield]

Techs often see folly that designers overlook. Today I was over at my dad's and he asked me to put away a Crate guitar amp that he had sitting in his shop. When I picked it up, I noticed that it had a level control knob for the line output sticking way out from the back panel, just waiting for something to shear it off.

I thought if I had a hand in designing it, I would have located the control closer to the cabinet edge where it would be better protected and use a low profile knob. However, when the guy was designing this PC board, I doubt he was thinking of such and event taking place.

Sometimes it’s designers not thinking, sure. But other times it’s designers trying to hit a target budget, often while using parts already in the system. Optimizing for durability adds cost and weight, and Those Who Count Beans will not allow it.

Fender concentrated on cheap amp builds with great performance, whereas Peavey concentrated on building tanks with good performance. The market rewarded Fender.