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Rumble: Gain and Master
- Thread starter kevs1
- Start date
So in general, Gain will be the level that goes from the input into the pre-amp, and master is the level coming from the pre-amp into the power-amp. Master should keep the same tone, just make it louder or quieter. But Gain will definitely change the overdriven sound. So high gain/low master = quiet, crunchy sound, whereas low gain/high master = loud, clean sound.
That said, is this a Rumble 40 with the silver grille cloth? Or the Rumble "Studio 40" with the black grille and digital processing. Just asking because the silver Rumble 40 has the OD channel with a push button to engage or disengage, which adds more 'gain' on top of the existing gain setting, when engaged. If it's the Studio 40, that overdrive can change depending on the modeling being used. I haven't played one of those yet, so would need someone else to give more details on the modeling. But the general statements in my first paragraph would still hold regardless.
That said, is this a Rumble 40 with the silver grille cloth? Or the Rumble "Studio 40" with the black grille and digital processing. Just asking because the silver Rumble 40 has the OD channel with a push button to engage or disengage, which adds more 'gain' on top of the existing gain setting, when engaged. If it's the Studio 40, that overdrive can change depending on the modeling being used. I haven't played one of those yet, so would need someone else to give more details on the modeling. But the general statements in my first paragraph would still hold regardless.
What eddie16 said. Regardless of whether you are expecting or hearing "overdrive", the gain is set to optimize how your signal is going into the "window" of the dynamic range of the circuit; too low and your signal will be too close to the noise floor; too high and it might be too close to the ceiling giving you more distortion than you want (or exactly what you want).
Nice, I switched from an Acoustic combo to my rumble, definitely felt like an upgrade. And yeah, I'm not 100% on the acoustic, but usually if there's only one volume knob (vs. separate gain/master), it usually works like a gain knob (so getting louder means you also start to pick up more drive/crunch). So with the rumble's separate knobs, you can dial in the sounds you want using the gain knob and eq. Then once you find your sound(s), you can adjust the master to get it loud enough without (too drastically) changing your overall tone.
And FWIW, the two overdrive knobs work like their own Gain/Master within the overall circuit, with the Drive knob increasing the "crunch" and the level increasing the loudness. (Or for the better technical explanation see jw23mind's post above
).
Also, I thought this was cool (but might bore most folks
) to see where in the signal each control sits: Fender Rumble Club
Enjoy the new amp!
And FWIW, the two overdrive knobs work like their own Gain/Master within the overall circuit, with the Drive knob increasing the "crunch" and the level increasing the loudness. (Or for the better technical explanation see jw23mind's post above
).Also, I thought this was cool (but might bore most folks
) to see where in the signal each control sits: Fender Rumble Club Enjoy the new amp!
Gain structure on Rumbles is a little different than other amps. Gain is more like a variable input pad. And there’s also the delta comp limiter that kicks in adding compression when signal is hot.
Just takes some playing with to get what you want out of it. Enjoy!
Just takes some playing with to get what you want out of it. Enjoy!
Want more confusion?
Gain is when a circuit increases the amplitude, or volume of the signal. The full name for "master" is "master volume" so ultimately both the Gain and Master knobs control the volume.
Really confusing. Musicians have been hugely confused by this forever.
What is different is they do their thing at different places in the signal flow so their overall effect on the sound varies a bit. It only makes sense if you understand the block diagram for the amp.
Gain is when a circuit increases the amplitude, or volume of the signal. The full name for "master" is "master volume" so ultimately both the Gain and Master knobs control the volume.
Really confusing. Musicians have been hugely confused by this forever.
What is different is they do their thing at different places in the signal flow so their overall effect on the sound varies a bit. It only makes sense if you understand the block diagram for the amp.
Here's how I explain gain structure to non-engineers:
You can't amplify the (tiny) output of a microphone or musical instrument up to the 100W+ coming out of your amp head in one single step. It takes at least two stages of amplification to get there. Usually we call those the preamp and the power amp.
"Gain" (usually on the left side, near the input jack) controls how much the preamp is amplifying your signal.
"Master Volume" (usually more towards the right side) controls how much the power amp is amplifying the signal coming out of the preamp.**
Sometimes these two controls are called Gain/Volume, sometimes they're called Volume/Master. Whatever they're called, the first controls the preamp volume, the second controls the power amp volume.
The result is that the "Volume/Master" knob multiplies whatever's coming out of the preamp via the "Gain/Volume" knob.
(** This is a bit of an oversimplification. Often, amplifier circuits have fixed gain, and the volume controls are what is known as "attenuators", which means they're throwing away some proportion of the signal before it hits the (fixed) gain circuit, giving you the illusion of variable gain. But that's a less intuitive way to think about what's happening, and it's more of a definitional argument anyway: does the attenuator count as part of the amplification circuit? The details are generally left to the engineers who design them.)
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On Rumbles, the amp works just fine with the gain turned all the way down.
Many don’t - but it’s rarely, if ever, a problem in the real world.
I strongly disagree. The amp is for stage monitor use. You should be able to adjust your stage volume without affecting the DI gain. I ran across this last night at rehearsal. All but one of us uses ear monitors. I had to turn up the amp so the other guy could hear and volume went up in my ears.
Of course its subjective and entirely up to the listener, but what might be an optimum position of the "gain" in V3 Rumbles? Is it safe to say half way or 12:00 is a good compromise for gain? (to avoid any distortion or clipping, gyet get full benefit of EQ controls in the preamp).The "master" is much easier to determine. For example how loud or low do you wanna play.
Fair enough. On the other hand, I never use the amp in that way, so it’s never been a problem for me. I never adjust the volume after sound check. The 800 HD and the Stage 800 have selectable pre/post DI, though.
Worth checking the manual just to see the bit about the built in limiter described in the "Master" section.
https://www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/Original/10001/OM_Rumble_40_100_200_500_US_5.pdf
GAIN: Adjusts incoming signal level, optimizing preamp signal level for a variety of basses. GAIN control also affects distortion/ compression level when VINTAGE and OVERDRIVE are in use.
MASTER: Controls overall volume. Rumble amps are equipped with Fender's Delta-CompTM limiter; setting MASTER higher or playing more aggressively will result in more compression and sustain.
https://www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/Original/10001/OM_Rumble_40_100_200_500_US_5.pdf
GAIN: Adjusts incoming signal level, optimizing preamp signal level for a variety of basses. GAIN control also affects distortion/ compression level when VINTAGE and OVERDRIVE are in use.
MASTER: Controls overall volume. Rumble amps are equipped with Fender's Delta-CompTM limiter; setting MASTER higher or playing more aggressively will result in more compression and sustain.
It's surprising to me that the Master volume control is before the Voicing Filters and EQ according to the block diagram. That sort of makes it a Gain for the Voicing and EQ stages, which could color the sound in different ways with different input level. Block diagram also shows why the Master annoyingly controls the Balanced Line Out level.
