This is the kind of story that ends in... "And I got tinnitus and now I'm screwed."
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Here's what it looks like at 50Hz and 100 Hz if you separate the cabs by, say, 26 feet:
Cabs apart:
Cabs together:
If you don't mind me asking... how big of venues are you playing that you need THAT many speakers to fill the room? Moreover, if you need that many speakers... why wouldn't all instruments go to FOH?
On gigs that I don't go into FOH, my 4x10 has no problem filling the room (small/medium sized bar/clubs)
Is there any reason you guys are only putting drums and vox into FOH?
On gigs that I don't go into FOH, my 4x10 has no problem filling the room (small/medium sized bar/clubs)
Is there any reason you guys are only putting drums and vox into FOH?
Usually we play in rooms that can have around 200 people max or Gym sized halls that dont have very good PA. Drums and vocals get drowned out easily even if all instruments go through the PA. Im guessing we just come across crappy sound guys who dont know what they are doing.
which is exactly why you don't want to bring two SVT cabs out!
if the crowd can't hear the vocals then "the band sucks", period. play only as loud as will be balanced out front, don't outrun the PA; if that means it's overall a little quieter, that's OK.
I say this with no disrespect meant, but do you?
It kind of just sounds like you're trying to combat loud volume with loud volume without equalizing anything.
If you're playing in a gym sized room with the Vox/Drums through the PA and the Guitar/Bass not, I can see this problem happening:
Since Vox/Drums are plugging into the PA, their volume going out to the crowd and volume on stage can be regulated separately. With the guitar/bass only going through the amps, you're gonna have to crank the volume up to compete with vocals/drums out in the back of the crowd. This is going to make your stage volume entirely too loud, which means vox/drums will have to turn up to compete with you. Do you see where I'm going with this?
Instead of buying all the extra cabs that really aren't needed, why not just pool the band's money and invest in a good PA and an IEM system?
Since I like metal, I'd say bring the cabs but don't hook all of them up. I love the intimidation factor seeing 8 4x12 guitar cabs and 2-4 8x10's. I saw Cannibal Corpse on their most recent tour and they had a surprisingly quiet stage volume (and no, I do not have hearing problems). Made it much more enjoyable than some other bands I've seen that were ear piercingly loud/too much treble or gain. You want the audience to enjoy themselves, and not leave with their ears ringing.
I have done similar things with 4x10s. In a former band, I used to play this one venue that was sort of like two rooms put together, but were otherwise not separated by a wall. Honestly, we should have been using subs (and from my understanding the band now uses subs in that venue). The first time we played there, the bass was easily lost, particularly on the other side of the room. The next time we played there, I stuck one 4x10 facing directly out per the traditional backline arrangement, and I hid another cabinet off the other side of the stage at a 45 degree angle and ran a long Speakon cable to it. The result much to my joy when I went out front during soundcheck is that the bass was full and present throughout all of the room. Due to facing the second cab at a 45 degree angle, I seemed to have minimized phase cancellation/comb filtering.
There used to be a really good 80s style rock band and the bass player would run a stack on either side. It was probably more for show as they worked with a good production company with a top-shelf JBL system.
With all that said, if you need two 8x10s and your guitarist needs 2 4x12s for backline, then the PA situation is seriously inadequate. If the PA isn't up to snuff to reproduce bass and guitar, then it's going to get drowned out by the backline by just trying to reproduce vocals. That's A LOT of air you and the guitarist are going to be pushing on stage.
There used to be a really good 80s style rock band and the bass player would run a stack on either side. It was probably more for show as they worked with a good production company with a top-shelf JBL system.
With all that said, if you need two 8x10s and your guitarist needs 2 4x12s for backline, then the PA situation is seriously inadequate. If the PA isn't up to snuff to reproduce bass and guitar, then it's going to get drowned out by the backline by just trying to reproduce vocals. That's A LOT of air you and the guitarist are going to be pushing on stage.
I did this decades ago - At the time, I was using one 18" reflex custom-made cab with an Acoustic 370. I thought I needed to spread my sound, so I got two 2x15 front loaded cabs and put one on each side of the drummer. That lasted one gig. It didn't spread anything except a sh*tty sound and tone. We all live and learn as we go.
Now that is the coolest colors I ever seen (since the 60s)! Seriously, those graphics show a lot. That is something that I have wanted to know, the advantages and disadvantages of spreading your speaker cabs. Now I know, and everyone else. Thanks for posting!
That article shows graphically what works and doesn't work, vertically and horizontally. What surprises me is the "dead" areas with multiple cab placement when spread apart, with dead space starting as close as 5 or 6 meters to the cab. Amazing. I wish I had that info decades ago. The bottom line, just like real estate, "location, location, location." Thanks for sharing.
IMHO...From an audio perspective the best use of two 810s is a crossfire setup. Crossfiring means the front edges of the cabinets are pushed together and the rear of the cabinets are toed out. IE the cabinets fire across each other. This setup will gain the benefits of coupling and also broaden the dispersion of the mids a bit from using a tight pack. You'll have to experiment to determine what angle sounds best.
If you don't already own the second 810, I agree with others who have suggested investing in a better PA. Something to keep in mind...best results are achieved if all subwoofers are of the same model.
This would be exactly my approach! The level everyone plays at should be dictated by the quietest thing on stage. There are a whole host of reasons why having so much bass backline could be more destructive to the mix than helpful, the first being the fact the sound from such large cabs doesn't really 'hit' until it's way in front of the box, so the tendency is to turn them up so you're comfortable on stage but you're killing the first 20 rows of the audience (this is something I've experienced at both ends, both as a bassist on stage and as a live engineer). The second is that without careful positioning and time alignment of the PA with the backline (if you're going through the PA) you're going to create a room full of hot and dead spots. Personally I suspect going down the path of two split 810s will create more problems than it solves.
This thread just has me rolling. I played a single ampeg 810 for over a decade. Played hundreds of shows with it. Constantly was told to turn down. Now I have a modified 410 and guitarist got rid of his Mesa half stack and got a 5150 2x12 and guess what?? I still get asked to turn down. I have done gigs where we ran bass into two bass rigs on each side of the drums because of the lack of pa support, it's basically pointless. Guitarist will ask that the cab on his side of the stage be turned down. You'll want guitar turned down on your side of the stage. Singer won't be able to hear themselves because of how loud the stage volume will be they'll try to compensate by cranking vocals in monitors, then crazy vocal mic feedback will be another problem. Drums won't have any balls to them because the pa which couldn't handle bass to begin with now has to keep up with a loud back line.even huge bands that may appear to have a back line like that actually don't. They are either unloaded or totally fake cabs used a stage props. And they only have like one cab out front and maybe an ISO cab in the back that actually have speakers in them.Not to mention if you guys are going to pay for quality guitar and bass cabs for that big of a back line just buy your own PA that can handle a full band. Quality 810s and 412 are a grand each new. For that much you can buy a decent PA
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