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Running out of optimism

#21
Ya I get what you mean. Commitment to fun is most likely not as serious as commitment to money.

However, in my current band, I know the others are interested in money. So my expectation is that they would commit for money, and I would commit for fun. So far, I'm the only committed person. It's backwards from what you would expect, right? You'd think the guy who wasn't interested in the money would be the one that flakes out. Nope. I'm the only one who's pushing this.

As always, lots of good advice here. Thanks everyone.
 
#24
A lot of wisdom dropped in this thread.

I think a lot of it may be blind dumb luck. I'm 38 and finally in a regularly gigging reliable band with some fairly talented musicians. I went through too many failed start up bands to count.

As mentioned earlier, musicians usually are unreliable, flighty, and have the attention span of a door knob. This week we are awesome... next week I'm just not really feeling it. This gets worse with age, as now the lazyness has kids, a wife, and a career all pulling for that 1/4 ounce of effort.

Good luck dude, I don't have any answers. :p
 
#26
Noshtero said:
Ya I get what you mean. Commitment to fun is most likely not as serious as commitment to money.

However, in my current band, I know the others are interested in money. So my expectation is that they would commit for money, and I would commit for fun. So far, I'm the only committed person. It's backwards from what you would expect, right? You'd think the guy who wasn't interested in the money would be the one that flakes out. Nope. I'm the only one who's pushing this.

As always, lots of good advice here. Thanks everyone.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I understand what you want Nosh. Commitment to money or fun does not mean a band will be gigging.

Do you want to be in an active gigging band or are you merely looking for fun?

blue
 
#27
bluewine said:
I'm not sure I understand what you want Nosh. Commitment to money or fun does not mean a band will be gigging.

Do you want to be in an active gigging band or are you merely looking for fun?

blue
Click to expand...


I would like to be in a gigging band, however my driving factor is fun, not money.

All I was getting at is if this was a job, and I needed to get in a gigging band or give up on music, I would be much more willing to deal with chasing people down, and hurding musicians in a direction.

Since this is all for fun, I'm much less willing to put up with wishy washy band members that may or may not really be interested in getting something going.

If we aren't going to gig, then I don't think I'm interested. I have spent enough years playing in the basement to no longer want to commit to only that. That's not fun for me anymore.

Does that make more sense?

Cracking the whip to get people to commit a week at a time takes the fun out of it.
 
#29
If booking is no problem and you haven't then it sounds like a problem somewhere to me. Maybe those guys are just too busy with other stuff. I would figure out who wants to stick with it and replace those who don't.

BTW - practice is what you do at home by yourself. Rehearsal is what you do together as a band. At least, that's how it's supposed to be. Some people don't practice enough and rehearsal becomes their practice.
 
#30
Noshtero said:
I would like to be in a gigging band, however my driving factor is fun, not money.

All I was getting at is if this was a job, and I needed to get in a gigging band or give up on music, I would be much more willing to deal with chasing people down, and hurding musicians in a direction.

Since this is all for fun, I'm much less willing to put up with wishy washy band members that may or may not really be interested in getting something going.

If we aren't going to gig, then I don't think I'm interested. I have spent enough years playing in the basement to no longer want to commit to only that. That's not fun for me anymore.

Does that make more sense?

Cracking the whip to get people to commit a week at a time takes the fun out of it.
Click to expand...

Hi Nosh.

I see where your coming from.

Unfortunately an active established band with good paying bookings is about more than fun. It's a lot of work similar to a job.

Fun, on the other hand happens in the basement and usually stays in the basement.

From what you have said it doesn't sound like a busy paid gigging band is for you.

Blue
 
#31
Noshtero said:
That's what I was getting at when I was saying I thought this time was different. These are all seasoned musicians. They know the booking agents by name. They have 100% assured me that actually booking gigs will be no problem.
Click to expand...

Hi Nosh,

They know the booking agents name ? That in most cases is not enough and means very little. "We are on contract with the "A" list agency" would be a different story.

And, all new start up bands think that booking gigs will be no problem. In reality it is a problem.

You might want to verify gigs and gigging history from the bands web-site. If there are no gigs listed on their web-site in most cases that means the band has no gigs.

Blue
 
#32
Well, you got the singer and the bassist nailed down, guitar players are dime a dozen and decent drummers can always be found when there are dollars to pay them.

Hit the open mics and find your guitarist, rehearse a bit. Hit another open mic as a "unit", a drummer will be found for the night, and off that you can book a gig.
 
#33
bluewine said:
They know the booking agents name ? That in most cases is not enough and means very little.
Click to expand...

I'm new to the local music scene. Simply by playing in a band that has done most of the local venues I know who the booking agents are. I know their names. But they sure as heck don't know mine. It's nice to know who the bookers are but it isn't worth a dime if they don't know who you are.
 
#34
Have you thought about taking time off?

In my early 20s I was in a few bad-news acts where I always ended up getting the s*&% end of the stick. The last of the bunch almost ended in a fistfight between me and one of the guitarists because he was a lousy pot-addled slouch. Rehearsing with that band was like injecting poison into my eyeballs. I was totally fed up with being in bands because it never worked.

I packed up my gear and was walking out of the studio, at this point thinking that I was going to sell off my stuff and just do other things when our studio manager stopped me. He's an old hand, he's been around so I was expecting him to tell me to get back on the horse and try again with another act but he didn't.

He said that when you're finding that it's not working out at all it's because you need to take a break from doing it for a while. He said that music is a lifetime thing, nobody ever really quits, but people from his experience people who take time out for a couple of years can really come back to it refreshed.

He used to be a full touring musician and he took about four years off in his 20s. I took nearly 3 years off bands, worked, went back to school and then when I was 23 I fell back into the music game by accident. It's still just as hard but I'm glad I stepped away for a while because it ended up reminding me about the things I missed about music as opposed to the crap I had to endure.

Not saying it will work for you, or that it's even the right move for anyone but it's just a little anecdote that I truck out whenever I come across someone who's fed up.
 
#36
Several people having given great advice already in this thread.

Some of the good ones before :

Get gig first.
Open mic nights.
Already existing cover band.
Different Genre (i.e. country)
start your own band
I will add learn to sing.

If you are going more originals than covers currently let me recommend that any band your in that breaks up, take the member(s) you are most compatible with and form something new. Always salvage. Eventually you will find you have enough material that you can simply drop in new members ready to hit the ground. Also, you can then use the get the gig first approach even better.

What your doing is not working for you so these are some new things to try.

Also the time off thing can be good.
 
#37
This kind of thing is why I'm always in 2-3 bands and let the fittest survive.

I've also found that expecting other people to be motivated by gig money doesn't really work too well in practice. There just isn't really all that much money in music, especially not for new bands, to be a strong motivator to a lot of people. You end up either with people whose day jobs pay a lot better anyway, or people who don't care all that much about money. Exceptions exist, but aren't common.
 
#38
Bands are flakey- 90% of the time- Even mine has its moments.
Especially when it is a weekend band that gigs infrequently.

Usually this will not change, but for a FT day worker it is the main option, because a band that is way more serious also will take WAY MOre of my time. As they want to gig at further away places, and also on weeknights at times.

So like everything else it is a trade-off.

BUT if you hear the words- "we just ain't ready, not tight enough, not the right songs, not this , not that" after a month or two, BOOK right then and there. These are code words, for" this is a basement band and/or Ego project", and "We have no real intention of EVER gigging!" Because it will NEVER be quite good/tight enough.
 
#39
I think 45ACP's point about musicians' characters is well taken. Just because things go dodgy after you're there doesn't mean they weren't that way already, or that they wouldn't have gone that way with another new bass player. You can't prove causality here. Sometimes a band is already like a tightly wound watch spring just waiting to break.

I've also noticed over 45 years of playing (I'm 61) that musicians are often immature, insecure, pouty, and self-destructive. Because of that, it seems like a high percentage will make extraordinary subconscious efforts to subvert things (either for themselves or for the band as a whole) as soon as the future looks like it's going to open up. Now, if someone shows up with his act together, this presents not just a mirror to their own character flaws, but also a bright band future to them. Double whammy. They can't deal with it, can't resolve the internal conflict, or fear what would come from trying to, so it's easier just to run from it. (Or just ignore it and hope it will go away, which is how some insecure people end relationships.) But again, it's not the new person's fault; any competent/confident player would've had the same effect.

I'm not saying that's what's going on here for sure, just that it's a possibility. People can hide their internal demons real well -- so well that their actions sometimes make no sense.
 

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