RUSH Clockwork Angels

[FenderP]

I sadly agree. Personally I thought Snakes & Arrows was a step in the right direction, but they gave most of it back on this recording.

Has anyone done an A-B comparison on the version of Caravan on the album versus on the earlier EP? I haven't yet, but I feel like it sounded more punchy and clear on the EP. It's almost like that version had S&A production quality, and the version on Clockwork Angels sounds like everything else on that album.

Great music nonetheless.

Different sets of speakers/headphones make this album sound more or less claustrophobic. The HDTracks version I have found sounds best via my MDR-7550s - here I can tell it has more resolution than the CD. You can hear everything (mix is still wonky) but to me the weakest link of anything on this album is the sound of the drums. It's like when they did the mixing choices (room type/reverb) they didn't pick the same room for Neil to be in with everyone else. What makes it more weird is that overall the mix has OK instrument separation and is pretty wide.

I think a good example of this is "Seven Cities of Gold" when the song "kicks in" around 2:00 - there's no big moment. The drums just lay there kinda limp. There's not much volume variation in that track in general. I bet live it will be much more dynamic. When it transitions back into the verse around 2:35ish up until about 2:40 when things kick in again, there's no punch when it comes in. There's a sameness to it all which is sad. Flat is a word that comes to mind readily. Then when it goes into the breakdown towards the end, I wanted it to be more like "Afterimage" where it breaks into the guitar solo/breakdown/synth section around 2:30. That has dynamics and draws you in. "Seven Cities" doesn't have the punch of an "Afterimage".

 

[T. Alan Smith]

Different sets of speakers/headphones make this album sound more or less claustrophobic. The HDTracks version I have found sounds best via my MDR-7550s - here I can tell it has more resolution than the CD. You can hear everything (mix is still wonky) but to me the weakest link of anything on this album is the sound of the drums. It's like when they did the mixing choices (room type/reverb) they didn't pick the same room for Neil to be in with everyone else. What makes it more weird is that overall the mix has OK instrument separation and is pretty wide.

I think a good example of this is "Seven Cities of Gold" when the song "kicks in" around 2:00 - there's no big moment. The drums just lay there kinda limp. There's not much volume variation in that track in general. I bet live it will be much more dynamic. When it transitions back into the verse around 2:35ish up until about 2:40 when things kick in again, there's no punch when it comes in. There's a sameness to it all which is sad. Flat is a word that comes to mind readily. Then when it goes into the breakdown towards the end, I wanted it to be more like "Afterimage" where it breaks into the guitar solo/breakdown/synth section around 2:30. That has dynamics and draws you in. "Seven Cities" doesn't have the punch of an "Afterimage".

I was going to give you a hard time about being picky and just enjoy the album...but damn if your not right. FWIW, CA is really growing on me and thus far my favorite since Presto.

 

[FenderP]

I was going to give you a hard time about being picky and just enjoy the album...but damn if your not right. FWIW, CA is really growing on me and thus far my favorite since Presto.

Hated Presto. Liked RTB better, but loved CP which is my favorite in the past 20-odd years from them. I don't get tired of that one. T4E had its moments ("Driven" is arguably one of my favorite Rush songs of all time and to play), but also had drivel like "Dog Years". VT is a mess all around, S&A was a disappointment, and CA has mainly good songs but crap sound. It's hard to get past the sound of CA, which at first blush, isn't as bad as VT but in reality is.

And I wasn't looking to be right, but I think that example I used shows how the production/mix (or lack thereof) affects things. The emotional punch isn't there for me. CA just doesn't "breathe" like the classic Rush albums of the 70s and 80s. Think about it - those 80s keyboard albums (my favorite era BTW) were dense sonically, but never messy or congested. That's a big difference when you compare them to, say, VT or CA.

I can overlook loudness/bad mastering. That last Foo Fighters album was loud, but it's a blast and mixed well (but the new Garbage album sounds like crap ... go figure; thanks Butch Vig). The choices made on CA baffle me.

 

[T. Alan Smith]

Hated Presto. Liked RTB better, but loved CP which is my favorite in the past 20-odd years from them. I don't get tired of that one. T4E had its moments ("Driven" is arguably one of my favorite Rush songs of all time and to play), but also had drivel like "Dog Years". VT is a mess all around, S&A was a disappointment, and CA has mainly good songs but crap sound. It's hard to get past the sound of CA, which at first blush, isn't as bad as VT but in reality is.

And I wasn't looking to be right, but I think that example I used shows how the production/mix (or lack thereof) affects things. The emotional punch isn't there for me. CA just doesn't "breathe" like the classic Rush albums of the 70s and 80s. Think about it - those 80s keyboard albums (my favorite era BTW) were dense sonically, but never messy or congested. That's a big difference when you compare them to, say, VT or CA.

I can overlook loudness/bad mastering. That last Foo Fighters album was loud, but it's a blast and mixed well (but the new Garbage album sounds like crap ... go figure; thanks Butch Vig). The choices made on CA baffle me.

Your hitting the nail on the head. Then again, I became a Rush fan in the early 80's as well...beginning with Signals and slowly working my way back while keeping up on the new stuff. I pretty much bought Moving Pictures & Grace Under Pressure the same month(lol). They all sounded so flippin' different! That seemed to continue as I both worked my way back thru the 2112 era as well as on thru the Counterparts era. But since then, they've lost much of the magic that made them almost my favorite band for nearly 20 years.

 

[smcgov]

Your hitting the nail on the head. Then again, I became a Rush fan in the early 80's as well...beginning with Signals and slowly working my way back while keeping up on the new stuff. I pretty much bought Moving Pictures & Grace Under Pressure the same month(lol). They all sounded so flippin' different! That seemed to continue as I both worked my way back thru the 2112 era as well as on thru the Counterparts era. But since then, they've lost much of the magic that made them almost my favorite band for nearly 20 years.

I collect vintage gear, especially speakers...I worked from home today and was excited about kicking this through the marantz , the allison cd9s or the AR 91's....wow...it could hear the compression distortion, I then made the huge mistake of turning on Digital Man just for sake of comparison.....I have to tell you, it's not just this album but most of everything recorded during the loudness wars blows goats...when is this high compression mastering going to end? When the bass pedal is employed it just becomes a sea of mud and I have some really nice speakers.

 

[FenderP]

I collect vintage gear, especially speakers...I worked from home today and was excited about kicking this through the marantz , the allison cd9s or the AR 91's....wow...it could hear the compression distortion, I then made the huge mistake of turning on Digital Man just for sake of comparison.....I have to tell you, it's not just this album but most of everything recorded during the loudness wars blows goats...when is this high compression mastering going to end? When the bass pedal is employed it just becomes a sea of mud and I have some really nice speakers.

The mastering didn't kill the sound on CA. Not much dynamic range, but it's not all digital zero. The mix IMO has killed this one.

 

[lsimy]

When they made the announcement a while back concerning signing with the current record company, I wrote into the blog (which was being monitored and responded to by record company staff), "Do us ALL a favor and don't master this thing into the ground. Dare to be different and go against the current grain !"

No response. I think it got removed. LOL !!

I miss the auditory punch and openness of the "Counterparts" days. Loud but still had great dynamics. "Double Agent" is a great example.

 

[Altitude]

I miss the auditory punch and openness of the "Counterparts" days. Loud but still had great dynamics. "Double Agent" is a great example.

Absolutely. Double Agent is also one of the coolest Rush songs ever, and fairly indicative of the direction they were taking their sound. Counterparts was a fantastic album generally.

As a strange left turn to the topic, but in response to your comment about overmastering - something I appreciate about Pearl Jam has been their ability to keep their albums sounding organic, almost like a really high definition garage band experience. Rush is more complex and technical music, certainly, but I think the last few albums would have benefited from a more simplistic approach to the sound.

 

[GRAHAM SG1]

I am listening to this album on you tube, I like it so far

 

[BassPlayer900]

I am SO ADDICTED to Seven Cities Of Gold. That bassline is the funkiest, most amazing thing I've heard from Geddy recently. Every note is so funky and his skills are amazing. I prefer using a pick when playing it though because I dislike the finger-as-a-pick technique.

 

[Duke21]

I am SO ADDICTED to Seven Cities Of Gold. That bassline is the funkiest, most amazing thing I've heard from Geddy recently. Every note is so funky and his skills are amazing. I prefer using a pick when playing it though because I dislike the finger-as-a-pick technique.

If you like Seven cities of gold you should listen to Crack the big sky by Spock's Beard, very funky bass intro there as well

 

[Hawkbone]

Absolutely. Double Agent is also one of the coolest Rush songs ever, and fairly indicative of the direction they were taking their sound. Counterparts was a fantastic album generally.

As a strange left turn to the topic, but in response to your comment about overmastering - something I appreciate about Pearl Jam has been their ability to keep their albums sounding organic, almost like a really high definition garage band experience. Rush is more complex and technical music, certainly, but I think the last few albums would have benefited from a more simplistic approach to the sound.

Agree with all that.

 

[Altitude]

I can overlook loudness/bad mastering. That last Foo Fighters album was loud, but it's a blast and mixed well

Yes, it is. The other thing about that album, though, is that the music on that album has space. You can hear through the notes, and I sense there aren't that many more tracks than there appear to be. I think that helps with a loud mix.

When I first heard Caravan, I had hope - I remember telling a friend that it was the first Rush song I'd heard in a long time that had any space. BU2B, not so much. The rest of the album is mostly a wall of sound. That can be done well - "Siamese Dream" was a great example, ironically also Butch Vig - but it is not done well here.

 

[wateroftyne]

I then made the huge mistake of turning on Digital Man just for sake of comparison.....I have to tell you, it's not just this album but most of everything recorded during the loudness wars blows goats...when is this high compression mastering going to end? When the bass pedal is employed it just becomes a sea of mud and I have some really nice speakers.

Yep.. just as I get used to CA's mix and mastering, I listen to something of Signals, Moving Pictures, GUP etc and I'm reminded how much of a backwards step we've taken over recent years, sonically speaking.

 

[john_g]

Yes, it is. The other thing about that album, though, is that the music on that album has space. You can hear through the notes, and I sense there aren't that many more tracks than there appear to be. I think that helps with a loud mix.

When I first heard Caravan, I had hope - I remember telling a friend that it was the first Rush song I'd heard in a long time that had any space. BU2B, not so much. The rest of the album is mostly a wall of sound. That can be done well - "Siamese Dream" was a great example, ironically also Butch Vig - but it is not done well here.

While I agree with the mixing/mastering/loudness issues, I also notice that Rush themselves have been playing "differently" since VT that contributes to the wall of sound.

Alex has almost exclusively gone to an overactive "acoustic guitar strumming" technique, that with lots of distortion and 12 overlayed guitars, is a big indistinct mess.

Then Geddy throws in some buzzsaw bass with the flamenco thing and double stops (although I havent noticed it on CA) and also the choir O' 20 Geddys and there is not space to breathe.

 

[Altitude]

While I agree with the mixing/mastering/loudness issues, I also notice that Rush themselves have been playing "differently" since VT that contributes to the wall of sound.

Alex has almost exclusively gone to an overactive "acoustic guitar strumming" technique, that with lots of distortion and 12 overlayed guitars, is a big indistinct mess.

Then Geddy throws in some buzzsaw bass with the flamenco thing and double stops (although I havent noticed it on CA) and also the choir O' 20 Geddys and there is not space to breathe.

Agreed on all counts. I love the "Choir O' 20 Geddys"!

 

[wateroftyne]

I still get a little rush (sic) of delight on Caravan on that stripped-back instrumental break where there's guitar, bass and drums, with no layered overdubs.

It sounds fantastic - there's just no need to muddy things up with a million layers...

 

[cirrus1]

Have you all tried listening to it on a surround sound system?

 

[wateroftyne]

Have you all tried listening to it on a surround sound system?

No. It's not surround encoded, is it?

 

[lsimy]

Yep.. just as I get used to CA's mix and mastering, I listen to something of Signals, Moving Pictures, GUP etc and I'm reminded how much of a backwards step we've taken over recent years, sonically speaking.

Great to read these comments. All I can say is, I tried...they ignored. Oh well. I think my mastering biz has fallen off steeply due to the fact that I won't participate in the volume/lack'o dynamics wars.

Step backwards (sonically) is well stated !