It doesn't matter a whole lot to me that they're in the hall, but it's good to see Rush get the attention/recognition so long overdue them by the snobs there. That's why I'm excited about the announcement. It matters a lot more that the people at Rolling Stone and the RRHOF are finally realizing that they can't hold personal prejudice against true artists anymore, and that they have to recognize the importance of the people who really matter in music.
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RUSH Clockwork Angels
- Thread starter 4001
- Start date
though I think that it is cool that they got recognized, I don't think they "need" the RRHOF thing to legitimize what they have done in the rock music world. I think that it is a shame that some other less signifigant acts have gotten in before them, but that sort of solidifies my thought that, like all awards situations, it is just a popularity contest, not a talent contest...
"Popular" rarely signifies "good". US Pop-Culture has pretty poor taste usually.
I'd rather they didn't get taken in by the mainstream ... that's usually the kiss of death. Look at how hair metal became so "popular" that it is now accepted by every mainstream advertizing utility. Disco was accepted by pop culture, to the point that it produced such wonderous musical creations as "Disco Duck" and "Kung Fu Fighting". Hip Hop used to be the home of the hard core urbanite clubbers. It's now used in children's cartoons and just about every basic advertizing strategy.
Anytime the mainstream "welcomes" something it tends to become softened, and homogenized. Which usually spurs a sortof paradigm shift. The music lovers that like out-there "rebellious" music stray way from the "accepted" music and look for yet something else that is off the beaten path. Once found, it is the sacred home of the truly individual music fan ... until the mainstream gloms onto it .. and it becomes used in common TV commercials and cartoons and sitcoms. Then the search for another ~unique~ sound commenses, and process begins all over again.
I hope Rush never gets into the RRHOF. All that will really signify is that they are no different than every other "accepted" band .... it most certainly would not make Rush any more valuable. The fact that they are NOT in the HOF is what actually makes then that much more rebellious and sidestream. I mean, .. geez ... all it would indicate is that they are no better than their shared company in the HOF. The whole reason most of us Rush diggers love them is because they are DIFFERENT from other attempts to make music. Not because they are the same.
Rush is PEERLESS. A class of their own. They do not belong is some commoner's collection of what some "panel" has decided is good. They are truly above of all that crappy nonsense.
No ... Rush does not belong in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Ever. And that is a GOOD thing.
I'd rather they didn't get taken in by the mainstream ... that's usually the kiss of death. Look at how hair metal became so "popular" that it is now accepted by every mainstream advertizing utility. Disco was accepted by pop culture, to the point that it produced such wonderous musical creations as "Disco Duck" and "Kung Fu Fighting". Hip Hop used to be the home of the hard core urbanite clubbers. It's now used in children's cartoons and just about every basic advertizing strategy.
Anytime the mainstream "welcomes" something it tends to become softened, and homogenized. Which usually spurs a sortof paradigm shift. The music lovers that like out-there "rebellious" music stray way from the "accepted" music and look for yet something else that is off the beaten path. Once found, it is the sacred home of the truly individual music fan ... until the mainstream gloms onto it .. and it becomes used in common TV commercials and cartoons and sitcoms. Then the search for another ~unique~ sound commenses, and process begins all over again.
I hope Rush never gets into the RRHOF. All that will really signify is that they are no different than every other "accepted" band .... it most certainly would not make Rush any more valuable. The fact that they are NOT in the HOF is what actually makes then that much more rebellious and sidestream. I mean, .. geez ... all it would indicate is that they are no better than their shared company in the HOF. The whole reason most of us Rush diggers love them is because they are DIFFERENT from other attempts to make music. Not because they are the same.
Rush is PEERLESS. A class of their own. They do not belong is some commoner's collection of what some "panel" has decided is good. They are truly above of all that crappy nonsense.
No ... Rush does not belong in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Ever. And that is a GOOD thing.
In a recent edition of the magazine "Guitar and Bass" (August 2012) Geddy was one of the featured artists. Towards the back of the magazine, there was this Orange Amplifer full page ad (page 124).
It depicts Geddy's Clockwork Angels live rig. Here's an enlarged view ...
In the written feature article, it says this about his road rig (verbatum quote):
"The Time Machine Rig.
From Shure UHF-R to a Kitty Hawk MIDI looper to an Axess Electronics splitter in parallel with a SansAmp RPM preamp, a Palmer PDI-05 speaker simulator, an Avalon U5 DI, and an Orange AD200 Mk3 amplifier driving another Palmer PDI-05 (with a Rivera RockCrusher power attenuator providing a load - in the studio this was replaced by a mic'd Orange 4x10" cab). These four lines then ran direct (there being no cabs onstage), with Brad Madix (FOH) and Brent Carpenter (monitors) add a fifth element of 'amp modelling' at console, otherwise, the amp settings don't change."
(End Quotes).
Ok , that is a verbatum quote. It's a bit confusing but I think it breaks down (something) like this:
** (Input stage) - Shure UHF-R to a Kitty Hawk MIDI looper to an Axess Electronics splitter where the signal is split into four separate feeds, that go into these four destinations...
1.) SansAmp RPM (this seems to have replaced the RBI that Geddy used for so long. From this picture it's impossible to tell though, because the RPM and the RBI now look identical - I think they used to have different colored handles on the older ~grey~ versions, one had chrome ones, the other had black ones.).
2.) Palmer Speaker Simulator.
3.) Avalon U5.
4.) Orange amp driving a second Palmer Speaker Simulator, with the power amp of the Orange also fed into the Rivera RockCrusher power attenuator to keep the Orange from blowing up due to no load (that is an assumption on my part).
Those four feeds are run to the FOH where the soundguy mixes them to suit the venue, and those same four feeds also go to the in-ear monitor sound guy to give Geddy his bass monitor signal. A fifth sound is created at the FOH using some sort of (??) "amp modeller" that is added to the House Mix.
So a grant total of FIVE different feeds, all mixed together to create a whole. Wow.
Ok, in contrast to that, here's Geddy's live rig from 2004.
Same pic but softened and re-lit a bit.
This picture mates up with another magazine article featuring Geddy ... "Guitar World's Bass Guitar - August/September 2004".
Here's how this rig was described (quoting verbatum):
"POWER WINDOWS a peek inside Geddy Lee's gear truck
(snipped) .... Instead of a typical backline, the stage behind Geddy features three front-loading Maytag dryers (set to Heavy, perhaps?). You see, Geddy runs his bass through a speakerless rig consisting of an Avalon U5 tube DI, a Palmer PDI-05 speaker simulator and a Tech 21 SansAmp RBI preamp, a setup he uses live and in the studio, mixing the signals of all three units depending on his needs. Ryan warms the tone another step with a Trace Elliot Quattovalve amp. "I run the signal into the input of that amp, then run the speaker out back into the Palmer input. The audio guys take a direct XLR output". Speakers still play a part in Lee's chain: Ryan also sends that Trace signal into a Trace Elliot cabinet beneathe the stage, "because if I don't the amp will just blow". Onstage, Lee relies on Ultimate Ears in-ear monitors run through a Sennheiser wireless system."
(End Quotes).
NOTE: "Ryan" is Russ Ryan, Geddy's bass tech.
So once again we've multiple parallel feeds.
1.) Avalon U5 (I used to have two of those, great GREAT active DIs).
2.) Palmer speaker simulator.
3.) Tech 21 RBI.
Exactly where the Trace Elliot is connected up is a bit confusing. It's unclear whether or not all three signals are mixed together and fed into the TE, or if the Trace Elliot is fed a fourth parallel signal, or if it placed before the Palmer speaker simulator, or if there is a second Palmer used just for the Trace .. or what. Just going by the picture I'd guess that a second Palmer is used.
I spy a Tech 21 Landmark 600 down there on the bottom of the amp rack in the 2004 rig. Cooly. I had a Landmark 300 years ago .... excellent rig. I regret selling it. Anyhow, not sure where that comes in, or if it is just some sortof backup, or what.
Kinda cool how there is ~two~ of nearly everything there in both the 2004 and 2012 racks. Most likely to deal with equipment failures during a show, would be my guess.
Funniest quote from the Bass Guitar interview:
(Interviewer) "Why don't you just slap and pop?"
(Geddy) "I could never get that down (laughs). I used to watch Jeff Berlin do it. I remember telling him that I wanted to learn how to do that, and he said "Don't! Don't learn it! It's destroying all bass players! Just play, man!"
I posted this stuff for posterity ... just something to enjoy ... it's also quite relevant to the topic of this thread.
It depicts Geddy's Clockwork Angels live rig. Here's an enlarged view ...
In the written feature article, it says this about his road rig (verbatum quote):
"The Time Machine Rig.
From Shure UHF-R to a Kitty Hawk MIDI looper to an Axess Electronics splitter in parallel with a SansAmp RPM preamp, a Palmer PDI-05 speaker simulator, an Avalon U5 DI, and an Orange AD200 Mk3 amplifier driving another Palmer PDI-05 (with a Rivera RockCrusher power attenuator providing a load - in the studio this was replaced by a mic'd Orange 4x10" cab). These four lines then ran direct (there being no cabs onstage), with Brad Madix (FOH) and Brent Carpenter (monitors) add a fifth element of 'amp modelling' at console, otherwise, the amp settings don't change."
(End Quotes).
Ok , that is a verbatum quote. It's a bit confusing but I think it breaks down (something) like this:
** (Input stage) - Shure UHF-R to a Kitty Hawk MIDI looper to an Axess Electronics splitter where the signal is split into four separate feeds, that go into these four destinations...
1.) SansAmp RPM (this seems to have replaced the RBI that Geddy used for so long. From this picture it's impossible to tell though, because the RPM and the RBI now look identical - I think they used to have different colored handles on the older ~grey~ versions, one had chrome ones, the other had black ones.).
2.) Palmer Speaker Simulator.
3.) Avalon U5.
4.) Orange amp driving a second Palmer Speaker Simulator, with the power amp of the Orange also fed into the Rivera RockCrusher power attenuator to keep the Orange from blowing up due to no load (that is an assumption on my part).
Those four feeds are run to the FOH where the soundguy mixes them to suit the venue, and those same four feeds also go to the in-ear monitor sound guy to give Geddy his bass monitor signal. A fifth sound is created at the FOH using some sort of (??) "amp modeller" that is added to the House Mix.
So a grant total of FIVE different feeds, all mixed together to create a whole. Wow.
Ok, in contrast to that, here's Geddy's live rig from 2004.
Same pic but softened and re-lit a bit.
This picture mates up with another magazine article featuring Geddy ... "Guitar World's Bass Guitar - August/September 2004".
Here's how this rig was described (quoting verbatum):
"POWER WINDOWS a peek inside Geddy Lee's gear truck
(snipped) .... Instead of a typical backline, the stage behind Geddy features three front-loading Maytag dryers (set to Heavy, perhaps?). You see, Geddy runs his bass through a speakerless rig consisting of an Avalon U5 tube DI, a Palmer PDI-05 speaker simulator and a Tech 21 SansAmp RBI preamp, a setup he uses live and in the studio, mixing the signals of all three units depending on his needs. Ryan warms the tone another step with a Trace Elliot Quattovalve amp. "I run the signal into the input of that amp, then run the speaker out back into the Palmer input. The audio guys take a direct XLR output". Speakers still play a part in Lee's chain: Ryan also sends that Trace signal into a Trace Elliot cabinet beneathe the stage, "because if I don't the amp will just blow". Onstage, Lee relies on Ultimate Ears in-ear monitors run through a Sennheiser wireless system."
(End Quotes).
NOTE: "Ryan" is Russ Ryan, Geddy's bass tech.
So once again we've multiple parallel feeds.
1.) Avalon U5 (I used to have two of those, great GREAT active DIs).
2.) Palmer speaker simulator.
3.) Tech 21 RBI.
Exactly where the Trace Elliot is connected up is a bit confusing. It's unclear whether or not all three signals are mixed together and fed into the TE, or if the Trace Elliot is fed a fourth parallel signal, or if it placed before the Palmer speaker simulator, or if there is a second Palmer used just for the Trace .. or what. Just going by the picture I'd guess that a second Palmer is used.
I spy a Tech 21 Landmark 600 down there on the bottom of the amp rack in the 2004 rig. Cooly. I had a Landmark 300 years ago .... excellent rig. I regret selling it. Anyhow, not sure where that comes in, or if it is just some sortof backup, or what.
Kinda cool how there is ~two~ of nearly everything there in both the 2004 and 2012 racks. Most likely to deal with equipment failures during a show, would be my guess.
Funniest quote from the Bass Guitar interview:
(Interviewer) "Why don't you just slap and pop?"
(Geddy) "I could never get that down (laughs). I used to watch Jeff Berlin do it. I remember telling him that I wanted to learn how to do that, and he said "Don't! Don't learn it! It's destroying all bass players! Just play, man!"
I posted this stuff for posterity ... just something to enjoy ... it's also quite relevant to the topic of this thread.
Nobody dislikes it ... that's the problem. It's such watered down pop music it's actually a mockery. It's a fun song, yes. But it is also a clear demonstration of what happens when the mainstream swallows whole something that was once rebellious and different. Disco music was no longer taken seriously by deep-dive hard core dance clubs and the disco dancing scene .. I mean .. c'mon ... Kung Fu Fighting? .. really? Sure .. skating rinks across the land spun it up ... and every 7 year old kid and his mom hit the rink floor when it was played. How can any genre of music be taken seriously once that happens?
It is the same idea that got my attention when I saw that VW Passat TV commercial featuring Fly By Night. I instantly thought "Oh HELLS no! Not Rush! Especially not from that era! Please PLEASE don't make that music a mockery!". You must ask yourself who the advertizing execs are attempting too appeal too when something like that is used. Does this mean that Rush is now "cool" with family car buyers? Uh oh .... place them right next to "mom jeans" in the discount bin! The Priests of Syrinx are not amused.
What's next, using Tom Sawyer as a theme song for some teeny-bopper TV show about ~ahem~ rich-teenaged "rebellious" youths from Bel Aire? 90210-esque garbage with Tom Sawyer as a theme song?
Bah ...
Flux Jetson said:
The CA Tour show in St. Louis was the 4th time I've seen them and I honestly feel like it was their best show. They really seemed to be fired up and really having a great time. I'm sure digging into the song list a little and playing so much of CA helped that. They weren't just trudging through all the same songs.
And that was prob one of the best things about the show for me. I didn't want to see the same old songs. They covered all the big stuff on the Time Machine Tour. I loved seeing songs I never expected to see live.
That is SO good to hear! So many older bands just take your money. They get up there, bang out a few oldies, and phone it in ...
All the while the promoter soaks us for a LOT of money to see our old fave groups.
You're welcome ..
Now and then I actually write something worth reading (in contrast to my usual bibble babble or the endlessly long techno-poo I post that can bore you into a near-death experience).
Okay just watched the Philly show. Holy. Cow. I've seen Rush a few times but this is as close as I've ever been to the stage. Just awesome. And while I had my doubts about the string section it was very tastefully used, mostly on the CA songs, but they did get to play the melody in YYZ. That must be the coolest gig a violinist or cellist could get!
Don't worry Flux, they most certainly are NOT phoning it in. And being inducted into the HOF won't change these guys. They blew off the record company and risked their careers to produce the 2112 album so they could give a damn about HOF douchebags. These guys play what they want and they do it like absolute pros. I mean, this is Rush we're talking about here!
Don't worry Flux, they most certainly are NOT phoning it in. And being inducted into the HOF won't change these guys. They blew off the record company and risked their careers to produce the 2112 album so they could give a damn about HOF douchebags. These guys play what they want and they do it like absolute pros. I mean, this is Rush we're talking about here!
Spectrum said:
That's really good to hear...I saw Rush on the Time Machine tour in Toledo and loved it. I missed the Detroit show for CA and am planning on driving down to Cleveland, but I was worried that it wouldn't be worthwhile, or the show would be disappointing.
Yeah, they friggin' KILLED IT last night in Philly!!! I really dug the new material, and the playing and show was fantastic!
-JV
-JV
I was ay Chicago 9/15 and St. Louis 9/22 and both shows were absolutly incredible. I've seen Rush 44 times and I'd say that these last two shows are in my top 5 all time.
St. Louis....
St. Louis....
STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP !!
I have to wait until next blooming may to see them, you are making the wait seem like an eternity
I have to wait until next blooming may to see them, you are making the wait seem like an eternity
I'm so glad to hear that the show is really excellent. That is just too cool!
About the HOF .... I'm not asserting that THEY (Rush) will change ... just the perception of them .. the ~acceptance~ of them. Once the mainstream begins to cradle a given band or artist within it's poop-culture arms, they begin to make a mockery of them, turn them into something cliche.
I mean, it happens in a flash of light ... just so quickly.
Then it isn't long before one of their songs is on "Kids Bop #87" with a chorus of "tweens" singing The Trees.
Ugh .....
Anyhow, glad to hear about how great the show is. I'm still a little unsteady about the use of the string section. I would still assert that adding a keyboard player with a mountain of modular synths and an eleven foot grand piano would be more ... I dunno .... ~Rush~ .. ??
It's one of those things I'll have to witness before I can actually feel at ease with the idea. It's been done with great success (Yes, Kansas) and also done with all the cliche appeal of a poorly done mullet (Emerson, Lake and Palmer, Kiss).
