S/D Bassists #86 - Dollar Tree Romance

[Squanch72]

I've been trying to improve my theory recently. Helps to be able to pick beebass's brain. I never had trouble learning any subject, but for some reason music theory is really slow moving for me.

It is super slow for me too, and I have found lots of wrong info on the web, which is a devil because you get set down the wrong path but you don't know till you learn it is wrong on your own. I never had a guitar teacher who knew more theory than the major and it's modes but I was a kid and didn't know what to ask for, the last ten years I have been on the hunt to find more information. I was in a long term relationship with a elementay and middle school music teacher and I would beg her to teach me why and she could never help me she couldn't understand what I was asking or she half-assed college I still don't know.
I want to train my ears so when I play by ear it is sounds right and I know why it sounds right if that makes sense LOL

 

[twhitedc]

Kawaii!!! Welcome back!

All said and done, I've been playing for 15 years and I feel like my playing, writing, and ears are better than they've ever been. Maybe it just took that long for the theory to sink in.

 

[JoeVictim]

i struggle with this. i know my scales in the "standard" postion but i am terrible at using scales in multiple positions during a riff/run or playing the scale on 1 string instead of 3 or 4 strings. I know it wouldn't take too much to learn but i just don't have the patience these days. trial and error seems more appealing to me for now.

That's called fretless... lol

 

[bassboysam]

I can't wrap my mind around chord progressions and when should the chord be major or minor and why it matters.

 

[Squanch72]

Kawaii!!! Welcome back!

All said and done, I've been playing for 15 years and I feel like my playing, writing, and ears are better than they've ever been. Maybe it just took that long for the theory to sink in.

+1 Welcome back Kawai, your are as ellusive as Sasquatch LOL.

I have noticed a change from dipping in to theory too, and I have really been getting into intervals more and more and I noticed that is really training my ears, when listening to music I hear more going on somehow, like I know what the next chord may be or what part of the neck the guy is playing in and how the guitar and bass connect. Also glad I learned some basic drumming think that has changed the way I hear music now too. Wrong and right notes are easier to find now it seems.

 

[jollygiantchris]

I lurk in this thread a lot but don't really have that much time to post in it.

It's also odd to me that everybody seems all hung up on scales and chord progressions considering the type of music we all play is very heavily riff based (there seem to be quite a few bands that just play successions of riffs). You can base a riff off of a progression but riffs do not have to conform to a chord progression or necessarily any of the rules pertaining to chord progressions or even any particular scale. Research Ostinato and Leifmotif for more info.

Obviously you need to know the major and minor scales and know where the tritone is but I'd say you're better off spending your time studying intervals to aid in melody construction (i.e. riffs) then memorizing a bunch of scales and extended chords you probably won't use. Realistically almost all of us are going to be using the blues scale and aeolian the overwhelming majority of the time anyways.

It doesn't hurt to know as much as possible but I'd focus on what you are actually using to make the kind of music you like to play as good as possible.

 

[JoeVictim]

How dark we pray, has to be a perfect song. IMO, of course

 

[bassboysam]

I lurk in this thread a lot but don't really have that much time to post in it.

It's also odd to me that everybody seems all hung up on scales and chord progressions considering the type of music we all play is very heavily riff based (there seem to be quite a few bands that just play successions of riffs). You can base a riff off of a progression but riffs do not have to conform to a chord progression or necessarily any of the rules pertaining to chord progressions or even any particular scale. Research Ostinato and Leifmotif for more info.

Obviously you need to know the major and minor scales and know where the tritone is but I'd say you're better off spending your time studying intervals to aid in melody construction (i.e. riffs) then memorizing a bunch of scales and extended chords you probably won't use. Realistically almost all of us are going to be using the blues scale and aeolian the overwhelming majority of the time anyways.

It doesn't hurt to know as much as possible but I'd focus on what you are actually using to make the kind of music you like to play as good as possible.

Yes and no, I find riffs can imply chords and if your riff moves around and switches chords then I think understanding progressions would help. I personally would like to learn more about music in general because I would like to be able to throw in non-stoner/doom elements. In addition I get bored easiy and I can only listen to minor pentatonic riffs for so long.

What we try to do sometimes is write a chord progression then write a riff/melody based on that progression but we dont actually use the chords after we have the riff.

For me where theory helps is when I try to write something to complement any existing part. It's also what I struggle with the most. I'm not good at hearing hatmonies or melodies in my head so I try to use theory instead and see if I can stumble on something.

 

[Squanch72]

I can't wrap my mind around chord progressions and when should the chord be major or minor and why it matters.

It's from chord theory, the triads built from the modes. Then extensions too.
I will find some of my cheat sheets for this for you later.
Check out Nashville Notation
Maj min min Maj Maj min dim Maj
Do re me fa so lat ti do
I ii iii IV V vi vii(diminished) VII

 

[CL400Peavey]

Up way too late last night practicing. Up way too early today for work.

Sweet lord Datassian thank you for this gift of coffee...

 

[Squanch72]

Up way too late last night practicing. Up way too early today for work.

Sweet lord Datassian thank you for this gift of coffee...

I owe Sweet Lord Datassian a thank you from yesterday, since I had to go ****** Newport News to have more packing pulled out from the sinus surgery so I got my fat bastard on at Cook Out and then stopped at the pet store for more saltwater fish for the old aqaurium and damn super fine perfect body college betty was there again, and bonus she had to reach up to a top shelf and I got to drink that perfect arse and long legs in, delicious!

 

[CL400Peavey]

I owe Sweet Lord Datassian a thank you from yesterday, since I had to go ****** Newport News to have more packing pulled out from the sinus surgery so I got my fat bastard on at Cook Out and then stopped at the pet store for more saltwater fish for the old aqaurium and damn super fine perfect body college betty was there again, and bonus she had to reach up to a top shelf and I got to drink that perfect arse and long legs in, delicious!

When I was in highschool, my dad would get me to come in to his office frequently when he would have military guys in to have their sinus packing removed. Little kid with nasal reconstruction? handles that sh!t like a champ. 270 pound "Im a badass" marine? Passes right the fuuck out as soon as he would start. He would have me in the office just to help in case they went down on the floor. The office girls were useless for picking them up.

 

[The_Janitor]

Morning, fellas. Supposed to be another winter sh*tstorm today. Rain turning snow - ice on everything. Should be interesting.

Got to mess around with one of these the other day:

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It's a pretty sweet guitar.

 

[beebassdude]

Yes I know the major scale and it's modes and how that relates to chord theory and to chord progressions. But I tend to use the intervals as my master template way of thinking going through the chords. I am trying to be better about learning all the notes of the scale possible in any position to and find it helps to think of modes this way too. Since I can think difference of the Minor Scale compared to the Major as a flat 3rd flat 6th and flat 7th intervals, I tend to just think I am starting on the 6 scale degree of the major scale and just count 6, 7, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
I guess since I play guitar too I want to have down the major scale and minor scale chord progressions(thinking that would cover most styles of music I dig, I get the Natural, Harmonic, and Melodic thing but not thinking I am going to rolling out or thinking in terms jazz to need to know the mods of the different minor scales, doubt I will be dropping super locrians out there LOL)
I ii iii IV V vi dim VIII
then take this to the minor scale and get chord theory down enough to match the chords/chord tones /modes back to them.

I have a bit of a mental block jumping/skipping strings when I build chords I want to play on guitar, example would be wanting to find that find minor 9th for instance faster and in different inversions.

Trying to not overwhelm myself with theory but understand enough of the major and natural minor scale and their modes and to build chords from them.
Sorry if this random and I am a layman to music theory and I am writing this on my smart phone during a migraine. Very excited to see some theory talk on here, very helpful to me, and I don't like the theory threads on TB the usual jump someone's crap over music theory like jumping someone for buying a Squier kind of thing.

i mean you know what a super locrian scale is and you know chord structures, sounds like you dont need any help with theory, just need to practice playing and applying it haha.

have you ever experimented with extension chords and seeing what kinda sounds you get? i enjoy minor scales to major (cause im so grym) so you start with your chord progression for minor and just start adding notes (7ths, 9ths, 11ths/#11ths/13ths). and you can do this backwards too, start adding them below the root, you can get some really cool sounds when you do inverted chords (for example, if you play an E minor chord, put a different note in the bass, or even multiple notes below the E, you can get some very cool chords).

 

[beebassdude]

I can't wrap my mind around chord progressions and when should the chord be major or minor and why it matters.

imagine it like a puzzle. a scale has 7 notes and an octave. so take C major, all natural notes:

C - D - E - F - G - A - B - C(octave)

to stay in C major, no chords should have any other notes aside from those ones.

C - E - G = Maj
D - F - A = min
E - G - B = min
F - A - C = Maj
G - B - D = Maj
A - C - E = min
B - D - F = dim

it matters because if youre in C major, and you play a D major chord instead of a D minor chord, you get D - F# - A, and F# is not in C major.

there are a few exceptions to this rule, one is a a stupid exception and only applies to 11th chords, another applies to dom7 chords. but for 95% of the time, the scale dictates the chords. and again its just a big pattern all stemming from the major scale. your chords will always follow the pattern of:

Maj - min - min - Maj - Maj - min - dim

 

[bassboysam]

imagine it like a puzzle. a scale has 7 notes and an octave. so take C major, all natural notes:

C - D - E - F - G - A - B - C(octave)

to stay in C major, no chords should have any other notes aside from those ones.

C - E - G = Maj
D - F - A = min
E - G - B = min
F - A - C = Maj
G - B - D = Maj
A - C - E = min
B - D - F = dim

it matters because if youre in C major, and you play a D major chord instead of a D minor chord, you get D - F# - A, and F# is not in C major.

there are a few exceptions to this rule, one is a a stupid exception and only applies to 11th chords, another applies to dom7 chords. but for 95% of the time, the scale dictates the chords. and again its just a big pattern all stemming from the major scale. your chords will always follow the pattern of:

Maj - min - min - Maj - Maj - min - dim

What about minor keys? What is the pattern?

edit: never mind, found it.

 

[beebassdude]

What about minor keys? What is the pattern?

edit: never mind, found it.

go to the 6th chord of the major, and start from there. notice how its the exact same group of 7, just in a different order.

min - dim - Maj - min - min - Maj - Maj

 

[bassboysam]

go to the 6th chord of the major, and start from there. notice how its the exact same group of 7, just in a different order.

min - dim - Maj - min - min - Maj - Maj

cool thanks.

 

[bassboysam]

another question; i see some progressions don't start on the I. as an example a ii7-V7-I progression.

So if the key is Cmaj the first chord would be Dmin7. Whould this be the same as having the key be Dmin7?

 

[beebassdude]

another question; i see some progressions don't start on the I. as an example a ii7-V7-I progression.

So if the key is Cmaj the first chord would be Dmin7. Whould this be the same as having the key be Dmin7?

2-5-1 is a very standard jazz progression, youve heard it a million times because it sounds pleasing to most peoples ears, and it resolves very well. so those chords are:

Dmin7 (D-F-A-C) - Gdom7 (G-B-D-F) - Cmaj (C-E-G-C) ((no 7th on this chord)

because it says ii, it cant be in the key of D, those numbers dictate what scale youre dealing with. Those chords could be part of a number of scales (C major, D dorian, E phrygian, F lydian, G mixolydian, A minor, B locrian) but those numbers tell you what scale degree youre dealing with, and thats how you tell the key.