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sadowsky and lakland

SMASH said:
Do you mean only Sadowsky makes the VTC? Several basses have it and had it before Sadowsky. I had a Hotwire that was years old that had a passive tone control both in active and passive (that's what the VTC is, for those who don't know). Nino puts this feature in his basses if you want it, and I recall in another thread people mentioned a few other brands that had too.

No, not at all. I meant only Sadowsky makes the Sadowsky preamp. Meaning that if you want a preamp that sounds like a Sadowsky, you gotta get a Sadowsky.

There's bunch of guys who wire passive tone as a standard option, like Sheldon Dingwall on the Super J. Other builders can do it too if asked. Now Sadowsky can use a special capacitor or something like that that will trim the tone down differently than others, so it could make their VTC different from other passive tone controls. Can anyone open one up and find out?

But heck, even I wired a bass wired with a passive tone control on my P bass outfitted with an OBP-1.
 
I have both, along with a Ken Lawrence Brase 5 and an MTD 535.

I prefer the Sadowsky for both feel and tone. I have a American Modern 5-24 and a Lakland 55-94 with Barts. I find the tone on the Sadowsky to be a lot more modern than jazz-bass like, the Lakland just sounds like itself.

Both are great basses, which is why there is already three pages on this thread. For me, it just comes down to my personal preference. FWIW, I am thinking about selling my MTD and buying a Sadowsky PJ-5.

The difference in tone - the Lakland is a bit more middy, with a little (very little) less beef in the low end. The biggest difference to me is the feel and balance. The Sadowsky neck is a LOT less beefy and a lot faster. It feels like there is a slightly different radius, also. Neither bass has much neck-dive, but the Lakland just sits a bit too far forward for me. Nothing that interferes with playing, just a nuance in feel.

I really don't think you can go wrong with either bass, the Sadowsky is just the one I prefer. To accentuate the differences between the basses I have the Sadowsky strung with their standard roundwounds and the Lakland with TI flats - which is a really cool sound.

Dan K.
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Kurisu said:
What's irritating is when people speak of Lakland Skyline's as a cheap line, similar to other brand's MIMs and MIKs.

If we compare Metro with Skyline, is the Metro truly in "another class" as one seller once put it to me?

It is only irritating if it is not true...I have played a few 44-02 and 55-02's that did not pass muster with me (in other words I sent them ALL back) I do consider the ones I played to be vastly inferior (trying to avoid the hyperbole here :rolleyes: ) I have played a BUNCH of Metros (and NYC Sadowskys) and never played a bad one...some were better than others but none were outright bad. I can't say the same for the 44-02 and 55-02. I have not played a 44-94 at length but I did play a 55-94 and liked it a lot overall but I did not care for the preamp. I think with a different pre I may have bought one.

On the other hand, I have said it before and I will say it again, the Darryl Jones Skyline DJ4 is the BEST overall sub $2,000 bass (I would add the VTC to my Metros so the price would go over the $2K threshold) I have had the pleasure of playing! I have played probably a dozen or so now and I have owned 4 of them now. I did not care for the DJ5 as much as the DJ4 but I would not attribute that entirely to the scale length. I thought the B was very good but I did not like the neck as much as the Sadowsky neck....I have gotten 2 DJ5's and did not keep either and don't think I will try another any time soon...I'd rather pay the difference for the Metro based on my experience. They ARE that much better to me. Of course it goes without saying this is all my opinion...:D

Peace,

T
 
Regarding chambered bodies: You can order a Sadowsky with a solid body, in fact, Sads with natural finish and no exotic top have solid bodies and they're still light weight.

My comments here are based in my experience with the following basses that I own/have owned:
- Lakland 4-94 (that's USA): I have owned 4 of these: One with Bartolini pickups and the rest of them with Duncan alnico pickups. 3 fretted and one fretless. All were ash/maple (the fretless had ebony fingerboard)
- Sadowsky Vintage JJ 4 string, ash/maple: I have owned 1 Metro and 2 NYCs.
...and the following basses I have played but not owned:
- Lakland 55-02
- Sadowsky Metro alder/morado.

The IMPORT models:
The two METRO Sads were as good as the NYCs: fit, finish, playability & tone. Both were as light as my NYCs. The only thing I missed were the Dunlop strap locks that come stock with the NYCs.
The LAKLAND 5502 that I played had a nice neck for a 5 string (I'm not a 5 string player), althought I didn't like the finish (on the neck). It was a very heavy bass and it had no mids, even with the mid control maxxed the tone didn't do it for me (amp was an Aguilar AG500 set flat). The store owner, a bassist himself and very used to high end basses also felt that the bass had no mids (this wasn't a problem with my 4-94s). The neck pocket wasn't the tightest and the knobs weren't installed in the same position, I mean, the center detents for the eq and the blend knob were in different points, as if the pots were rotated, very confusing to know how your eq/blend is set just by looking at them.

the USA models:
LAKLAND:
#1: Great fit and setup out of the box. I didn't like the Bart pickups much. Not a 10 for finish because there were some tool marks on the side of the headstock, nothing really important but something I didn't expect from a high end instrument.
#2: I picked up this one in NYC, the A string were out of its place at the bridge and the setup was messed (maybe something happened while in transit from Chicago to NYC). Back home I did a setup and it played and sounded great. You could see some shadows on the neck finish as if the oil wasn't applied uniformly. You couln'd feel them to to the touch. This shadows became more noticiable the more I played the bass.
#3: The fretless, I got this one shipped to California. It needed a setup out of the box because the G & D strings were unplayable in the first position even with a very light touch. The body had an stunning grain. First time I changed the strings I noticed that the E & A strings had left groves in the part of the fingerboard that extends past the nut. I suppose that this was due to the nut cut too deep for these strings. I also found that there was a small piece of wood by the bridge pickup that was missing prior to the bass being finished and it had been fixed with the polyester. Once I did a setup the bass played and sounded great. The minor finish flaws didn't interfere with playability or tone, but once again something I didn't expect from a high end bass instrument but not important enough to return the instrument.
#4: This one was again shipped to California and my wife brought it to Spain with her. Great setup, fit and finished out of the box. It came with the wrong bridge pickup and a couple of custom specs were missing.

All 4 4-94 necks felt great. I felt at home with them from day one (after playing a MM StingRay for 10 years) and the fret job was perfect in all cases (but the fretless :p )

SADOWSKY:
I still play these and my GAS for other brands is gone since I started playing them a year and a half ago. It took me a long time to try a Sadowsky because I always thought that I needed a mid eq knob. I was wrong and once I tried my first one I sold the two Laklands I still had. As hard as I have searched I haven't found anything wrong with the two NYCs I've owned: perfect fit, finish, playability and tone. And I mean PERFECT.
After playing the StingRay and the Laklands for so long it took me a week to get used to the Sadowsky neck shape. In the time that I owned both (Sadowsky & Lakand) I got to the point where I preffered the Sadowsky neck.

I can't comment on the Fender style Laklands (Osborn, Glaub & DJ) because I have never played one. I know that they're made to get as close as possible to the vintage 60's Fenders, which includes no shilding, and hum is something I can't stand. I also find that the Sadowsky preamp is by far the simplest, most musical on board pre that I have heard.

This was a looooong post for which I'm sorry:D
 
tommixx said:
It is only irritating if it is not true...I have played a few 44-02 and 55-02's that did not pass muster with me (in other words I sent them ALL back) I do consider the ones I played to be vastly inferior (trying to avoid the hyperbole here :rolleyes: ) I have played a BUNCH of Metros (and NYC Sadowskys) and never played a bad one...some were better than others but none were outright bad. I can't say the same for the 44-02 and 55-02. I have not played a 44-94 at length but I did play a 55-94 and liked it a lot overall but I did not care for the preamp. I think with a different pre I may have bought one.

On the other hand, I have said it before and I will say it again, the Darryl Jones Skyline DJ4 is the BEST overall sub $2,000 bass (I would add the VTC to my Metros so the price would go over the $2K threshold) I have had the pleasure of playing! I have played probably a dozen or so now and I have owned 4 of them now. I did not care for the DJ5 as much as the DJ4 but I would not attribute that entirely to the scale length. I thought the B was very good but I did not like the neck as much as the Sadowsky neck....I have gotten 2 DJ5's and did not keep either and don't think I will try another any time soon...I'd rather pay the difference for the Metro based on my experience. They ARE that much better to me. Of course it goes without saying this is all my opinion...:D

Peace,

T

+1 to literally every point and example in the above.
 
frandiaz said:
Regarding chambered bodies: You can order a Sadowsky with a solid body, in fact, Sads with natural finish and no exotic top have solid bodies and they're still light weight.

Lot's of different info on the chambering of these basses. The website states that the alder bodied NYC's are chambered, however a poster above verified that now the ash NYC's are chambered.

I did not think it had anything to do with having an exotic top or not. I'm curious, and maybe Nino can chime in here.

Are all NYC's chambered? Are only exotic top NYC's chambered? Or... does Roger spec chambering only when a specific piece of alder or ash is too heavy to maintain what seems to be an 8-9 pound spec for 5 strings (and about a pound less for 4 strings).

No big deal, just curious. I always assumed my RV5 NYC with no exotic top was chambered because it was so light (about 8.5 pounds or so), but maybe it's just a really light piece of wood. In direct comparison with a number of Metro RV5's, it is significantly lighter than all of them that I have compared it too.

Thanks in advance for any info on this.

K
 
KJung said:
Lot's of different info on the chambering of these basses. The website states that the alder bodied NYC's are chambered, however a poster above verified that now the ash NYC's are chambered.

I did not think it had anything to do with having an exotic top or not. I'm curious, and maybe Nino can chime in here.

Are all NYC's chambered? Are only exotic top NYC's chambered? Or... does Roger spec chambering only when a specific piece of alder or ash is too heavy to maintain what seems to be an 8-9 pound spec for 5 strings (and about a pound less for 4 strings).

No big deal, just curious. I always assumed my RV5 NYC with no exotic top was chambered because it was so light (about 8.5 pounds or so), but maybe it's just a really light piece of wood. In direct comparison with a number of Metro RV5's, it is significantly lighter than all of them that I have compared it too.

Thanks in advance for any info on this.

K

My two NYCs are solid ash bodies. AFAIK, All basses (ash & alder, exotic top or not) are chambered with the exception of the ones with natural finish and no exotic top, where the seam could be seen.
 
frandiaz said:
My two NYCs are solid ash bodies. AFAIK, All basses (ash & alder, exotic top or not) are chambered with the exception of the ones with natural finish and no exotic top, where the seam could be seen.


That makes sense to me. I wonder why the NYC solid color/non fancy top basses are all lighter than the Metro's then... most by a significant amount. Are the lighter pieces of Alder and Ash more expensive, or does Roger and team just take more time in picking the lighter woods?

Whatever the reason, it sure is worth it to me.... just amazing how light those NYC's are... and the tone is similar to identical to the heavier Metro's (although the Metro's are surely reasonable weightwise also) to my ear. Of course, I guess you have to weigh (pardon the pun) the somewhat stiffer neck and lighter weight to the extra $800 or so!
 
I've had a DJ5 and two metros, and I'll tell ya, while the DJ5 was great, the Metro really is a better bass. In some ways it is a subtle difference, in some ways it is significant. It is also a lot more expensive. The best of the bunch so far is this UV70 5er I'm playing now with single coils and a VTC ... off the charts!

Sadowsky gets it right ... plus there is the 7-day trial.

With these "fender style" basses, if dead spots bother you, its really important to play them before you buy, or have a good return policy. ANY of them can have a dead spot even if they have graphite in the neck, and IME the manufacturers will go ahead and release a bass with even some pretty serious dead spots. I returned a lakland USA since it had THREE consecutive dead notes on the G string (and a weak E string), and my first metro had a pretty short sustaining C# (a major drag if you're playing a walking part in E).

If you are looking for more of a "classic" J-bass sound, just get Roger to load in the single coils and VTC.

If you can't afford a Metro, a Skyline is a really good bass too.
 
Both Companies offer great basses...for me it comes down to a couple of things,

if you are looking at US made it very much comes down to individual nit picky aesthetics... Both price and quality are in the same realm

Metro Vs Skyline: right from the start before even picking the basses up to play is the HUGE difference in price. MIJ vs MIK... Honestly I really don't see a quality difference between the two if there are some then I'm ignorant to them. with that said $1900-$2400 for Metro 4's vs $900-$1300 Lakland 4's for me it's hard to see myself buying a metro I would rather wait it out save another $1000 and buy a NYC model.

As for Skylines the price point is a lot easier on the pockets of the "Blue Collar" player that wants a great bass and wants a different option over Fender

(i've been thinking about this comparison a good while now...what makes it harder is having Valenti pransing around showing amazing work for an honest dollar and work arounds like buying a Geddy Lee and throwing your pick up of choice and having Sadowsky install his preamp w/ the VTC for total package price around $1200...Damn it's good time to be bassist. I love that it's a hard decision)
 
renejaime said:
I would rather wait it out save another $1000 and buy a NYC model.

Roger says, if you don't need custom options not available on a Metro, there is no reason to order an NYC. The quality is the same.

See the metro FAQ at the bottom of this page:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
Frandiaz, it's interesting ... you're the third or fourth person I've heard from who owned a bunch of Laklands and ended up prefering Sadowskys. I have yet to hear the opposite story from anyone.

Slightly off topic, does anyone understand the economics of the metro basses? Usually when someone builds an inexpensive line of instruments off shore, they contract a factory in some country with cheap labor. But Roger seems to have set up a small custom shop, very much like his NYC shop, and he did it in TOKYO of all places. I would be amazed if you can get significantly cheaper rent or labor in Tokyo than in Brooklyn. And then the instruments need to be shipped here! Very curious.
 
paulraphael said:
Frandiaz, you're the third or fourth person I've heard from who owned a bunch of Laklands and ended up replacing them Sadowskys. I haven't heard the opposite story from anyone.

Slightly off topic, does anyone understand the economics of the metro basses? Usually when someone builds an inexpensive line of instruments off shore, they contract a factory in some country with cheap labor. But Roger seems to have set up a small custom shop, very much like his NYC shop, and he did it in TOKYO of all places. I would be amazed if you can get significantly cheaper rent or labor in Tokyo than in Brooklyn. And then the instruments need to be shipped here! Very curious.

I also had both a Lakland (55-94) and Sadowsky and sold the Lakland... more because of moving toward a J Bass tone than anything else though.

Regarding the issue about the 'overseas custom shop', I assume that's why the Metro's are about $1,000 more than the Skylines, on average.
 
pickles said:
Roger says, if you don't need custom options not available on a Metro, there is no reason to order an NYC. The quality is the same.

See the metro FAQ at the bottom of this page:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

In general, +1. However, there are differences (especially weight)... you just have to decide if the relatively minor differences are worth the $800 or so (which is the approximate price difference between similar NYC and Metro models after you upgrade the Metro to include the VTC). It was for me, and my continued playing of the Metro's reinforces that decision. However... if I was on a budget, and wasn't looking for an ultralight bass... it's the Metro's all the way IMO.
 
pickles said:
Roger says, if you don't need custom options not available on a Metro, there is no reason to order an NYC. The quality is the same.

See the metro FAQ at the bottom of this page:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I very much want a Sadowsky and the Metro's I've played feel and sound awesome (i would gladly play/own one if a lovely person ever bought one for me) it's just hard for me to spend $2400 on a bass that's not custom made in some way... so why not fight the good fight with your GAS and save the money for exactly what you want...
 
KJung said:
In general, +1. However, there are differences (especially weight)... you just have to decide if the relatively minor differences are worth the $800 or so (which is the approximate price difference between similar NYC and Metro models after you upgrade the Metro to include the VTC). It was for me, and my continued playing of the Metro's reinforces that decision. However... if I was on a budget, and wasn't looking for an ultralight bass... it's the Metro's all the way IMO.


For me the decreased weight, for one, is very much worth the additional cost.

It is an additional $1,000 BUT well worth it and here is why:

1.) I know that Roger personally selected the body and made sure it was to his liking.

2.) About a pound lighter. Weight of a bass is very important to me having been in a couple car accidents and having back pain.

3.) VTC already installed

4.) Graphite stiffing rods

5.) Made in the USA

6.) More color options

7.) and finally..... because! :D

p.s. on th eused market I can get an NYC for about $300 more than a new Metro.