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Sadowsky Preamp vs Avalon U5 Preamp

#2
sungjin891118 said:
I was intending on purchasing a Sadowsky preamp pedal to improve my bass tone to the next level.
Then i found out some of my favorite artists with great tones use an Avalon U5 preamp.
The Avalon is much more expensive than the Sadowsky.
Could you guys give me any comparison or input about these 2 preamps?

Thanks
Click to expand...

I can't speak for the U5 personally, though many here hold it up as the Holy Grail of preamps. I had the first generation Sadowsky outboard pre from 1997 (the old belt clip model). It worked very well for passive basses and with my upright bass. Clean, versatile, and powerful, and made a huge difference in my Fender Standard Jazz Bass. Bear in mind that it has no midrange control, only bass and treble, and is boost only. The U5 seems to be made for studio applications mainly, and basses that perhaps have onboard preamplification for tone shaping, as it has no tone shaping controls of its own. The Sadowsky can shape tone in some ways, but again, it has no mid control. The Sadowsky is a great, road-ready box and a DI unto itself. I'd personally be nervous about taking an Avalon on the gig or the road, unless it was in a REALLY good rack case. What basses are you using it with, and what's the rest of your rig like? That would help a lot in answering your query more directly.
 
#3
JazznFunk said:
I can't speak for the U5 personally, though many here hold it up as the Holy Grail of preamps. I had the first generation Sadowsky outboard pre from 1997 (the old belt clip model). It worked very well for passive basses and with my upright bass. Clean, versatile, and powerful, and made a huge difference in my Fender Standard Jazz Bass. Bear in mind that it has no midrange control, only bass and treble, and is boost only. The U5 seems to be made for studio applications mainly, and basses that perhaps have onboard preamplification for tone shaping, as it has no tone shaping controls of its own. The Sadowsky can shape tone in some ways, but again, it has no mid control. The Sadowsky is a great, road-ready box and a DI unto itself. I'd personally be nervous about taking an Avalon on the gig or the road, unless it was in a REALLY good rack case. What basses are you using it with, and what's the rest of your rig like? That would help a lot in answering your query more directly.
Click to expand...

thanks for your great input.
right now i'm using an ampeg ba115hpt combo tube amp.
when i get enuff money ill prob upgrade to a 4x10 cab and another amp head.

i was planning to use the sadowsky preamp pedal on my lakland 55-02 by bypassing the lakland internal preamp, because it sounds too polite to me. i want something with more power and aggressiveness. i was told by someone else here that they done this to their lakland also and it made a huge difference with the sadowsky preamp.

do u know if the avalon u5 will have a similar effect as the sadowsky in terms of giving it more output strength?
also, would i connect them as: bass->external preamp->effects->amp?
 
#4
This'll be long, but there's a number of points I gotta make. I own and use all the gear in this discussion, so I can offer first-hand observations:

The Avalon and the Sadowsky units we're discussing aren't exactly in the same category in terms of use and purpose, even though they both function as preamps.

The Avalon U5 is a high quality audio interface that isn't designed specifically for bass. Sure, they sell 'em at Guitar Center, but you find them in the pro audio department. It does have some tonal control, but if you give it a bass sound that you don't like to begin with, it won't and can't do what a Sadowsky preamp can do. The Sadowsky preamp is designed specifically for use with a bass guitar. If I were in your shoes gear-wise (and I have been), you'd be best served with a Sadowsky preamp. If you buy the Avalon, you'll be out $600 USD and still not getting the tone you want.

I use my Avalon all the time live and in the studio. If I plug my Lakland into it, it doesn't add the tonal quality and impact that a Sadowsky preamp does. That's not it's job. If I plug in my Sadowsky, with an onboard Sadowsky preamp in it, the Avalon presents the Sadowsky sound in a pure, honest way. That's the job it's supposed to do.

It's been covered in other threads, but new strings, amp settings, or messing around with DIP switches and preamp outputs aren't going to make a Lakland project and cut the way you want it to. That's not a bad thing, but that sort of sound isn't Lakland's strong suit.

If you're seeking the sound I think you're seeking, you'll need a speaker cab with a horn in it as well.
 
#5
Don't know if the U5 boosts your output, but if you're looking for more aggressiveness, look elsewhere. The U5 is very polite IMHO. Great sound, but it's meant to be clean.
 
#6
You might want to look into an Aguilar Tone Hammer or SansAmp Para Driver DI. Each has a mid control and gives you a little more versatility in your sound. They also have gain or drive controls to add in some grit, if you want. One thing to keep in mind is that your Lakland already has a preamp in it and does essentially what an outboard preamp does. An outboard preamp isn't going to give you a lot more versatility.

As for the Avalon U5, it doesn't get much better than that. It does have six tone presets of which about four are useful for bass. It sounds great without tone modification too. As JimmyM said, it's not going to give the grit other preamps can provide (but not the Sadowsky) if you're looking for that sort of thing. I've taken mine to many gigs, and never had a problem. They're not as fragile as some seem to think, you just have to avoid letting someone toss it around. My DB750 has four times as many tubes in it and it does just fine. If you want to lay out the coin, you won't find a better preamp.
 
#7
also look into a Xotic Tri-Logic preamp, ( there's one for sale here in the classifieds, it's a great 3 band pre with more versatility than the sadowsky )

also a boss GEB-7 7band EQ it's what i use & it works much better than a 2 / 3 band preamp imo ( & i do have the sadowsky onboard pre / vtc in on of my basses )
 
#8
The Sadowsky pre may only have two bands but it is one of the most musical pre amps on the market. It does not have a bad setting, and subtile adjustments can do a lot. If I was you though I would go with the internal Sadowsky pre or upgrade to a different internal pre. The Sadowsky is great on passive basses, but you may get some unusual interactions between your Lakland pre and the Sadowsky. Also most basses that have active pres don't get a "true bypass" when you go passive.

The Avalon basically takes the sound you give it and makes it bigger, richer and fuller. If you feed it a good signal, it becomes a great signal. I had one, and the sound guys loved it. I also used it as a stand alone pre for a power amp for a while. But I don't really feel it's a good package for live play. It's not a full rack in length, but it's 4 spaces in height. It actually fits in the Eden bag for a WT 550. So it's almost like carrying another amp In fact you could fit two U5's in the space of one GB Shuttle or LM II at almost the same cost for one of those fine amps. Also it's not real rugged in stand alone configuration. To me unless it's part of a big live rack rig it doesn't make sense live. But it is a great studio piece.
 
#9
Good info here....The Avalon is essentially a Super Direct box more than a preamp. It has 6 EQ curves and it does exactly as what has been described perfectly! FOr Direct box it has NO equal. However, if you want tone shaping and a DI the Sadowsky is the only thing I use. I have not tried the tone hammer but I have heard good things about it. I recommend the Sadowsky very highly over the U5 for what you are trying to do. Just so you know the U5 is one half space width wise but ONLY 2 rack spaces high. I have a pair of them in a side by side configuration in my record rack and I love them for DI on everything!

Peace,

T
 
#10
If you haven't seen an Avalon U5 in person yet, make sure you do before you plunk down any money on one. They are larger than you'd expect. At least they were a helluva lot larger than I was expecting the first time I saw one. It is out of the running for me due to the form factor. Too much cartage for a DI. The U5 is a nice DI box, but if anything in the signal chain is lacking, then the overall tone will suffer. Can't effectively "add" anything in. In that sense it makes for very limited preamp. I'd lean towards the Sadowsky in this instance.

I'm also intrigued by the tone hammer but haven't gotten my grubby little mitts on one as of yet.

Re: The previous recommendation of a sansamp...
That is about as far opposite of the clean U5 thing as you get IMHO. Very, very colored. It lets you dial in a wider variety of tones, but will NOT do the clean thing like the U5 or the Sadowsky. Don't misunderstand me, the tech 21 stuff is great at doing what it does, but it ain't clean.

I own both a SABDDI (shoulda gotten the paradriver) and the sadowsky. I've used the U5 a few times before (on the gig as well as in store) but have never owned one.
 
#11
tommixx said:
Good info here....The Avalon is essentially a Super Direct box more than a preamp. It has 6 EQ curves and it does exactly as what has been described perfectly! FOr Direct box it has NO equal. However, if you want tone shaping and a DI the Sadowsky is the only thing I use. I have not tried the tone hammer but I have heard good things about it. I recommend the Sadowsky very highly over the U5 for what you are trying to do. Just so you know the U5 is one half space width wise but ONLY 2 rack spaces high. I have a pair of them in a side by side configuration in my record rack and I love them for DI on everything!

Peace,

T
Click to expand...

Yeah My bad, I meant to say almost 4 inches. It's an unwieldy package for a typical club or even church gig. I LOVE them as a direct box for both bass and acoustic guitar. But I ended up going with a Radial, which sounds VERY good and fits in my gig bag.
 
#12
burk48237 said:
Yeah My bad, I meant to say almost 4 inches. It's an unwieldy package for a typical club or even church gig. I LOVE them as a direct box for both bass and acoustic guitar. But I ended up going with a Radial, which sounds VERY good and fits in my gig bag.
Click to expand...

Gotcha...I keep a Radial JDI in my gig bag at all times! The U5 is not the run of the mill DI for sure. I love it on bass, keys and especially accoustic guitar. There are MANY of them on major tours and at work in studios and big Sound Companies but the average bass player does not have an efficient way of schlepping one around. The weight with ears is about 13 lbs or so so it is not light or easy to manage even on its own. Unless you are going to rack it I don't suggest lugging the U5 around. It is far too big and bulky and even thought it is tough it is not made to drag around unprotected. For the original poster that is just one more reason to go with the Sadowsky.

Peace,

T
 
#13
I for one refuse to carry around a 13 lb. DI that costs $600 to go entertain at some bar or outdoor stage where the house PA is going to negate all the good that the U5 would do. As a tube nut I'd rather get a REDDI, but even that at 10 lbs. is too much.

Having said that, I do lug a Heil PR 40 to mic my cab, but it was only $325 ;)
 
#14
apples and oranges.


for gigging, as has been said, the U5 is big and needs to be rack mounted if you want to keep it safe.


the Sadowsky is a great preamp with a built in DI.


the U5 is a stellar DI with selectable eq 'curves' built in.(that absolutely sound great)
 
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#16
sungjin891118 said:
thanks alot everyone. its really useful what you all said.
i placed an order for the sadowsky preamp.
very excited!!

btw, how do u connect them?

bass -> preamp -> effects -> amp?
Click to expand...

Wire it up bass -> preamp -> effects -> amp. There is a difference. You'll get the best results with the preamp first in line. The Sadowsky preamp acts as a buffer that drives effects very well.
 
#17
20db pad said:
Wire it up bass -> preamp -> effects -> amp. There is a difference. You'll get the best results with the preamp first in line. The Sadowsky preamp acts as a buffer that drives effects very well.
Click to expand...

agreed....it is essentially a line amplifier so anything you put in front of it gets amplified for better or worse. Anything that is noisy (like effects) will have the noise amplified if you put it on front of the pre. Hope that helps to explain why.

Peace,

T
 
#18
and don't forget that if you're using delays or reverbs, they always do best when they're in the effects loop of your amp. everything else usually goes before the amp.
 
#20
sungjin891118 said:
I was intending on purchasing a Sadowsky preamp pedal to improve my bass tone to the next level.
Then i found out some of my favorite artists with great tones use an Avalon U5 preamp.
The Avalon is much more expensive than the Sadowsky.
Could you guys give me any comparison or input about these 2 preamps?

Thanks
Click to expand...


Most of your favorite artists use the U5 as it was designed, as a DI, NOT as a preamp.

Also, the Sadowsky is more like an 'onboard preamp', not designed to, for example, drive a power amp.

If you are looking to put something between your bass and bass head (or another preamp) for more tone control, it would be the Sadowsky all the way, and the DI is actually VERY good on the Sadowsky.
 

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