To get the same note out of a shorter string it has to be thicker or looser. Or a combination of both. And thicker strings, all other things being equal, are less flexible than thinner strings.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Scale Length - Why Does It Matter?
- Thread starter BulbousMoses
- Start date
To get the same note out of a shorter string it has to be thicker or looser. Or a combination of both. And thicker strings, all other things being equal, are less flexible than thinner strings.
More efficiently.
Bass notes have a longer wave length than treble notes, and require more energy to generate. The longer the vibrating string which produces the wave form, the more energy you're going to have in the wave. When bringing in the acoustic question, you also have the issue of how much resonant cavity you have to amplify the wave, which is why an upright bass is required to get true acoustic bass sound. On electrics, we use amplification to get that additional energy.
Basic physical properties of vibrating strings. It's the same as the difference between piano sizes. Grand pianos are the largest, therefore can accommodate the longest strings and almost universally have the richest sound of all the piano types. Of course, if that's not what someone is after then they might not consider that "better". 
There are a variety of reasons why scale length matters to an individual but for me it's feel. I like what 35" scale does to tone but I don't like the feel so I stick to 34". Yes 1" does make a difference.
There are a variety of reasons why scale length matters to an individual but for me it's feel. I like what 35" scale does to tone but I don't like the feel so I stick to 34". Yes 1" does make a difference.
Basic physical properties of vibrating strings. It's the same as the difference between piano sizes. Grand pianos are the largest, therefore can accommodate the longest strings and almost universally have the richest sound of all the piano types. Of course, if that's not what someone is after then they might not consider that "better".
There are a variety of reasons why scale length matters to an individual but for me it's feel. I like what 35" scale does to tone but I don't like the feel so I stick to 34". Yes 1" does make a difference.
A good explanation of the physics involved but the analogy of a grand piano is somewhat weaker. A grand piano is often a solo instrument or if not a solo instrument, the main instrument in an ensemble. Therefore, richness of tone is of prime importance. Electric bass is a support instrument, usually, and as such wouldn't need the same tonal richness. Thoughts?
I wasnt trying to address whether or not richer tone is needed or wanted. And honestly based on the minutae we bassists discuss ad nauseum on this site, variation in timbre, harmonics, and tonal richness is the most important thing in the universe to many of us.
Well, on the guitar cork sniffer forums scale length is a big debate as well. There is the Gibson, Fender and PRS scale. The Santana model PRS even has a smaller scale. As a consequence, the short scale people tend to use thicker strings, bending is different, some claim they can't play certain chords on the short scale etc. pretty much same discussion, however with more guitar specific issues.
For the same brand and gauge strings tuned to the same pitch, the shorter scale has less string tension so for the same pitch and string brand/gauge the shorter string will have more elliptical travel for the same plucking strength due to the lower string tension of the shorter string.
That translates to more efficiency for the shortscale since it would take less plucking strength to reach the same elliptical travel as the long scale string in the example above.
A pickup transduces the range of elliptical travel of the string into amplitude.
Not really. For the same brand and gauge strings tuned to the same pitch, the shorter scale has less string tension.
Unless there's something wrong with a particular bass there is usually plenty of sustain on long, short, and medium scales.
Agreed! I have a 34" scale, but my other 2 basses are short scales. one is a 5 string and the low B is more than adequate!
It's not about the sustain, it's about pitch perception.
The thinner the string, the higher the content of overtones. Thick and stiff strings stifle overtones, simply because they have shorter wavelengths and amplitudes and are therefore more susceptible to be stifled. But also, if a string is thin and floppy, pitch is just not as precise.
Longer scale lengths allow you to achieve the same tension with thinner strings. Therefore, because the overtones are stable and we use only the overtones to perceive pitch (the fundamental is not nearly as important, or audible in case of the B string), we distinguish notes more clearly.
I played a variety of 34" basses with low B strings, and the first commend I got once I received my Dingwall (37" B string) was that every single note I played down there was clearly distinguished and audible. Doing quick runs down there did not sound like rapid, vague rumble, but like a melody. I had no trouble cutting through the mix either.
Of course, pitch perception is first and foremost affected by the strings. Pickups and play-styles play a huge role too. But, longer scale increases the ceiling of what can be achieved with good strings.
The thinner the string, the higher the content of overtones. Thick and stiff strings stifle overtones, simply because they have shorter wavelengths and amplitudes and are therefore more susceptible to be stifled. But also, if a string is thin and floppy, pitch is just not as precise.
Longer scale lengths allow you to achieve the same tension with thinner strings. Therefore, because the overtones are stable and we use only the overtones to perceive pitch (the fundamental is not nearly as important, or audible in case of the B string), we distinguish notes more clearly.
I played a variety of 34" basses with low B strings, and the first commend I got once I received my Dingwall (37" B string) was that every single note I played down there was clearly distinguished and audible. Doing quick runs down there did not sound like rapid, vague rumble, but like a melody. I had no trouble cutting through the mix either.
Of course, pitch perception is first and foremost affected by the strings. Pickups and play-styles play a huge role too. But, longer scale increases the ceiling of what can be achieved with good strings.
Gibson vr fender guitars... the scale is hugs part of the tone difference and show the same character changes as the basses.
A les paul has thick tone with lots of mids and and less overtones. Hum-bucker PU's accentuate this. They're actually known to have a "weak"Ie Less sustain Low E strings. Physically,the shorter scale is less tension so the play can bend farther/easier.
A strat has more overtones,,,"bell/Piano" like quality. More piercing high notes. All accentuated by the single coils.
A les paul has thick tone with lots of mids and and less overtones. Hum-bucker PU's accentuate this. They're actually known to have a "weak"Ie Less sustain Low E strings. Physically,the shorter scale is less tension so the play can bend farther/easier.
A strat has more overtones,,,"bell/Piano" like quality. More piercing high notes. All accentuated by the single coils.
On a mobile device so can't do a search. I remember seeing a post with a listening test with sound samples of both short and standard scale basses.
I recall the difference between the two scale lengths being nearly inaudible. Once you're in a full band setting, scale length is a nonfactor IMO.
I recall the difference between the two scale lengths being nearly inaudible. Once you're in a full band setting, scale length is a nonfactor IMO.
BassHappy
Supporting Member
Absolutely true my friend - I couldn't agree more.
Never been in a studio yet where musician, producer or engineer could listen to a killer bass track from a previous session and call out the scale length. It ain't gonna happen baby....
Really that simple. Play the scale that fits you and gives you superior ergonomics and that "comfort" edge. Play what feels like coming home.
BassHappy
www.innertainment.net
For me it's about string tension and feel.
I'm not a scientist or physics guy but it seems like as you get down into 5 string range, even though the notes are a still a half-step apart the difference in the wave length of the notes becomes greater so a bit more "mechanical advantage/string length" can be helpful.
I'm not a scientist or physics guy but it seems like as you get down into 5 string range, even though the notes are a still a half-step apart the difference in the wave length of the notes becomes greater so a bit more "mechanical advantage/string length" can be helpful.
Personally, I see it as a balance between tone and playability.
I love the feel of light gauge strings.
I love having a lot of loose flex on my high strings.
I hate having flubby low strings, but I hate playing against thick gauges.
I dislike having to reach to much in melodic passages.
So, to keep the gauge feel I like running my fingers against, while attaining my preferences above, my next custom is coming in as a multiscale, 35-32.
I guess that's a long way of saying, personal preference.
I love the feel of light gauge strings.
I love having a lot of loose flex on my high strings.
I hate having flubby low strings, but I hate playing against thick gauges.
I dislike having to reach to much in melodic passages.
So, to keep the gauge feel I like running my fingers against, while attaining my preferences above, my next custom is coming in as a multiscale, 35-32.
I guess that's a long way of saying, personal preference.
I mostly notice a lack of tone and volume from the G string on a short scale compared to a medium or regular 34". I think the E has more definition and presence also.
Just FYI to get the same tension on the strings you need ones 6.5% thicker on a 30" vs a 34" . So your .100 "E" has to go to a .107 - shortscales tend to be strung too lightly 
. FWIW I like to go with progressive tension so most commonly 40/55/75/105 (D'Addario XL's) or 40/55/75/107 (GHS Bass Boomers).
. FWIW I like to go with progressive tension so most commonly 40/55/75/105 (D'Addario XL's) or 40/55/75/107 (GHS Bass Boomers).
I have different scale basses and different scale guitars--I have no problem changing between them
They each have their pros & cons.
I like them all.
I also know someone with a half scale guitar and it's a lot of fun to play. But it's tuned up a fourth.
And I've tired the Kala U Bass--which is the same pitch as standard bass with a much shorter scale--fun to play--and you can do some cool stuff with it.
I've played it a little more recently as I know someone who has one.
They each have their pros & cons.
I like them all.
I also know someone with a half scale guitar and it's a lot of fun to play. But it's tuned up a fourth.
And I've tired the Kala U Bass--which is the same pitch as standard bass with a much shorter scale--fun to play--and you can do some cool stuff with it.
I've played it a little more recently as I know someone who has one.
It is really very simple as far as the tone component of shorter scale is concerned:
Using the same string...
Longer scale = tighter strings = more harmonics
Shorter scale = looser strings = more fundamental
Using the same string...
Longer scale = tighter strings = more harmonics
Shorter scale = looser strings = more fundamental
