scale shapes

[toxicbass]

Hello this is my first post. Joined because I am learning bass theory on my own and I am having trouble with some parts so I figured I might get some help here. I tried searching on here and multiple sites couldn't find an answer. Hopes its in the right area

I learned all the notes on a fret board and how to construct major scales with WWHWWWH I got that pretty easy. What I'm not getting is how the major scale shape fits into that because looking for instance at the C major scale C D E F G A B C I can see where all the notes are within C-C on the fret board I understand that part but then I read more about scale shapes and got this one as the shape for the major scale but if you use this shape you are hitting notes that aren't part of the C major scale. Can someone please explain? am I not getting something or doing something wrong? Thanks for the help.

G|x|x|x|x|
D|1|x|3|3|
A|1|2|x|4|
E|x|2|x|4|

 

[s2bs2]

Hello this is my first post. Joined because I am learning bass theory on my own and I am having trouble with some parts so I figured I might get some help here. I tried searching on here and multiple sites couldn't find an answer. Hopes its in the right area

I learned all the notes on a fret board and how to construct major scales with WWHWWWH I got that pretty easy. What I'm not getting is how the major scale shape fits into that because looking for instance at the C major scale C D E F G A B C I can see where all the notes are within C-C on the fret board I understand that part but then I read more about scale shapes and got this one as the shape for the major scale but if you use this shape you are hitting notes that aren't part of the C major scale. Can someone please explain? am I not getting something or doing something wrong? Thanks for the help.

G|x|x|x|x|x| sorry if this is rough looking.
D|1|x|3|4|x|
A|1|2|x|x|4|
E|x|x|2|x|4|

yes, they are.
I suggest that you now learn where every C is on your fret board, every D, every E, etc.
EDIT: Also, play your C major scale notes up and down each string.

Next, do some research on (or google) Modes of the Major scale.
There are scales within the C major scale (no different notes). for example:
C D E F G A B C
D E F G A B C D
E F G A B C D E etc., Use the first note of each mode as the tonal center and you will hear the different scales.

here is the first hit from a google search for 'Modes of the Major Scale':
Music Theory: Modes of the Major Scale
this will unlock a lot and should keep you busy for a bit ;-)

 

[toxicbass]

I know where all the c's are but why if you use that shape say starting on the first fret you hit these notes then? I thought the point of a scale shape was to move it up and down the neck and hit the notes in the scale. Really sorry if I am making no sense lol maybe I need to go back.
D|D#|X|F|F#
A|A#|B|X|C#
E|X|F#|X|G#

 

[jasmangan]

In your diagram above you have F# major scale, not C major. This major scale pattern will work anywhere starting on the bottom two strings (E and A).
So let's say you want a C major scale starting on the C on the A string. Start on the C and run that pattern, you have a C major scale.

 

[mikew31]

C Major scale using your pattern starting on the A string:

G|x|2|x|4|5
D|x|2|3|x|5
A|x|x|3|x|5
E|x|x|x|x|x

Or starting on the E string:

G|x|x|x|x|
D|7|x|9|10|
A|7|8|x|10|
E|x|8|x|10|

The major scale is the same pattern no matter where the root is. Use this pattern on the E string starting at the 5th fret and you're playing an A major scale. Start on the 3rd fret and your playing G major, etc.

 

[toxicbass]

NOW I get It . For some reason I was thinking if you used that pattern anywhere on the neck you get a C major scale every time ,thanks so much.

 

[toxicbass]

yes, they are.
I suggest that you now learn where every C is on your fret board, every D, every E, etc.
EDIT: Also, play your C major scale notes up and down each string.

Next, do some research on (or google) Modes of the Major scale.
There are scales within the C major scale (no different notes). for example:
C D E F G A B C
D E F G A B C D
E F G A B C D E etc., Use the first note of each mode as the tonal center and you will hear the different scales.

here is the first hit from a google search for 'Modes of the Major Scale':
Music Theory: Modes of the Major Scale
this will unlock a lot and should keep you busy for a bit ;-)

and thanks for the info

 

[toxicbass]

One more question so for example the E string is left out in order for it to start and finish on the root note C? what happens if you where to add the G and A note on the E string? I know that would change the shape but because G and A are notes of the C scale would that be a mode of the C scale or would that have to go G-G and stop I'm a little confused because I read scales don't always have to start and end on the root note. So it would go G-A-C-D-E-F-G but if you continue on to the G string it would be A-B-C
G|X|2|X|4|5|
D|X|2|3|X|5|
A|X|X|3|X|5|

 

[BAG]

NOW I get It . For some reason I was thinking if you used that pattern anywhere on the neck you get a C major scale every time ,thanks so much.

When you learn a scale shape or pattern you want to keep that pattern the same for different scales based around the root note. This is just one pattern and there are many patterns you can learn for each scale. As long as you base your pattern around the root note then you can move them to play any scale. Here's some graphic examples....


As noted above, one pattern for the C major scale starting on the E string would be

If you move this shape back three frets and start it on the 5th Fret it is now an A major

Or as your example was, start it on the second fret and you get the F#major

If you take the original pattern and start on the 3rd fret of the A string you get your Cmajor looking like this......

Move that up two frets and you get a Dmajor.....

As others have noted, you should learn it across all four strings (as well as up each string which I'll not do here) so the C major is then....

which can also be moved up and down the fretboard.

 

[BAG]

One more question so for example the E string is left out in order for it to start and finish on the root note C? what happens if you where to add the G and A note on the E string? I know that would change the shape but because G and A are notes of the C scale would that be a mode of the C scale or would that have to go G-G and stop I'm a little confused because I read scales don't always have to start and end on the root note. So it would go G-A-C-D-E-F-G but if you continue on to the G string it would be A-B-C
G|X|2|X|4|5|
D|X|2|3|X|5|
A|X|X|3|X|5|

They are still notes of the Cmajor scale. Every A B C D E F G on the fretboard are part of the Cmajor scale (they are also the notes of the Aminor scale too). In the last example above you'll see the pattern, if you start on the C on the E string, finishes on D E F on the G string. These notes are still part of the Cmajor scale and when I practice I play those notes and come back to one of the C notes so it sound right to me. Others people learn their scale pattern differently but this works for me. There are numerous other patterns to learn and those who are much better than me can play their scales anywhere up and down the fretboard on any string or combination of strings without having to picture such boxed patterns.

 

[willbassyeah]

One more question so for example the E string is left out in order for it to start and finish on the root note C? what happens if you where to add the G and A note on the E string? I know that would change the shape but because G and A are notes of the C scale would that be a mode of the C scale or would that have to go G-G and stop I'm a little confused because I read scales don't always have to start and end on the root note. So it would go G-A-C-D-E-F-G but if you continue on to the G string it would be A-B-C
G|X|2|X|4|5|
D|X|2|3|X|5|
A|X|X|3|X|5|

it is still in the C Maj diatonic group of notes,

The C Maj Diatonic consist of the following modes,

when we talk about the maj scale that you are talking about, you are playing the first mode of that diatonic scale which is the Ionian mode (also called as the natural major)

if you were to start from G, you will be playing the Mixolydian mode, the shape change a bit with a Flat 7th,

in other words, let say you are playing a maj triad chord on C, you can play any of the modes below and it will still sound right, but if you were to play an aeolian mode start on C (which is the natural minor), it will sounds wrong because it contained a Minor 3rd (which is the Flatted E) and will collide with your maj 3rd.

Ionian C D E F G A B C
Dorian D E F G A B C D
Phrygian E F G A B C D E
Lydian F G A B C D E F
Mixolydian G A B C D E F G
Aeolian A B C D E F G A
Locrian B C D E F G A B

 

[toxicbass]

They are still notes of the Cmajor scale. Every A B C D E F G on the fretboard are part of the Cmajor scale (they are also the notes of the Aminor scale too). In the last example above you'll see the pattern, if you start on the C on the E string, finishes on D E F on the G string. These notes are still part of the Cmajor scale and when I practice I play those notes and come back to one of the C notes so it sound right to me. Others people learn their scale pattern differently but this works for me. There are numerous other patterns to learn and those who are much better than me can play their scales anywhere up and down the fretboard on any string or combination of strings without having to picture such boxed patterns.

Just to make sure I got it so you can add the D E F and its still C major because its based around the root note C?

 

[BAG]

it is still in the C Maj diatonic group of notes,

The C Maj Diatonic consist of the following modes,

when we talk about the maj scale that you are talking about, you are playing the first mode of that diatonic scale which is the Ionian mode (also called as the natural major)

if you were to start from G, you will be playing the G Mixolydian mode, the shape change a bit with a Flat 7th,

in other words, let say you are playing a maj triad chord on C, you can play any of the modes below and it will still sound right, but if you were to play an aeolian mode start on C (which is the natural minor), it will sounds wrong because it contained a Minor 3rd (which is the Flatted E) and will collide with your maj 3rd.

Please correct me if i'm wrong but to try and keep it clear for the OP, while these are all modes using the C Maj diatonic group of notes they would be known as......

Ionian C D E F G A B C - or C major
Dorian D E F G A B C D - D dorian
Phrygian E F G A B C D E - E Phrygian
Lydian F G A B C D E F - F Lydian
Mixolydian G A B C D E F G - G Mixolydian
Aeolian A B C D E F G A - A Aeolian (or A minor)
Locrian B C D E F G A B - B Locrian

 

[BAG]

Just to make sure I got it so you can add the D E F and its still C major because its based around the root note C?

Keeping it basic, the answer is yes, however as willbassyeah wrote, using those notes of the C Maj scale but starting and finishing on a different note can give you different modes.

 

[willbassyeah]

Please correct me if i'm wrong but to try and keep it clear for the OP, while these are all modes using the C Maj diatonic group of notes they would be known as......

Ionian C D E F G A B C - or C major
Dorian D E F G A B C D - D dorian
Phrygian E F G A B C D E - E Phrygian
Lydian F G A B C D E F - F Lydian
Mixolydian G A B C D E F G - G Mixolydian
Aeolian A B C D E F G A - A Aeolian (or A minor)
Locrian B C D E F G A B - B Locrian

Yes you are right, this confuse me a bunch when i start learning theory, but i have a teacher who is able to explain me well

check out this website it gives you all the shapes that is applicable in a diatonic scale in any key that you want:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

found a good image source for the shape,

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Lets leave modes alone for now. Modes are a very good tool for the solo instruments and melodic playing. Yes the bass can play modes, however, we are primarily an accompaniment instrument providing harmony and rhythm. We do that with chord tones and basic scale notes.

Bass Patterns based upon the Major Scale box.

Major Scale Box showing the scale degree numbers.​

G~~|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D~~|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A~~|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E~~|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string
You have seen this box with dots. Adding the scale degree numbers
lets the box become a living breathing thing. Place the box's R over
the C at the 4th string 8th fret and the notes of the C major scale await you.
Place the box's R over the G at the 4th string 3rd fret and the notes of the G major scale await you.
A scale at the 4th string 5th fret, etc.

​

Scale spellings

• Major Scale = R-2-3-4-5-6-7 Home base
• Major Pentatonic = R-2-3-5-6 Leave out the 4 & 7
• Natural Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7 Major scale with the 3, 6 & 7 flatted.
• Minor Pentatonic = R-b3-4-5-b7 Leave out the 2 & 6.
• Blues = R-b3-4-b5-5-b7 Minor pentatonic with the blue note b5 added.
• Harmonic Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-b6-7 Natural minor with a natural 7.
• Melodic Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-6-7 Major scale with a b3.

Let the major scale be your home base then change a few notes and you have something different. No need to memorize a zillion patterns. Let the major scale pattern be your go to pattern - then adapt/adjust from there.

The box can be used for your chord tones. See a Cmaj7 chord and if you know that the spelling for a Cmaj7 chord is R-3-5-7 of the box's scale degree notes any of those notes will make a bass line that can be played over that chord. Cm's spelling is R-b3-5 so those notes would work in a bass line under a Cm chord. For the rest of the story, keep reading...

Basic Chord spellings:

• Major Triad = R-3-5 aka C
• Minor Triad = R-b3-5 aka Cm
• Diminished Chord = R-b3-b5 aka Cdim

7th Chord spellings:

• Maj7 = R-3-5-7 aka Cmaj7
• Minor 7 = R-b3-5-b7 aka Cm7
• Dominant 7 = R-3-5-b7 aka C7
• ½ diminished = R-b3-b5-b7 aka Cm7b5
• Full diminished = R-b3-b5-bb7 aka Co

See a chord and play it's chord tones. As every key will have three major, three minor and one diminished chord it's a good idea to get your major, minor and diminished bass line chord tones into muscle memory so when you see a chord your fingers just know what will work. Now the song may only give you enough room for the root, or root five - adapt and get as many chord tones into your bass line as needed. Root on 1 and a steady groove from the other chord tones plus something to call attention to the chord change is what we do.

Generic Notes - for your bass line.

• The root, five and eight are generic and fit most any chord. Remember the diminished has a flatted 5.
• The 3 is generic to all major chords. So R-3-5-3 will fit under any major chord.
• The b3 is generic to all minor chords. And R-b3-5-8 will fit under any minor chord. Why the 8? Well the 8 is just another root in the next octave.
• The 7 is generic to all maj7 chords. Yep, R-3-5-7 fits nicely.
• The b7 is generic to all dominant seventh and minor seventh chords. G7 = R-3-5-b7 or Gm7 = R-b3-5-b7.
• The 6 is neutral and adds color, help yourself to 6’s. Love the sound of R-3-5-6 with a major chord.
• The 2 and 4 make good passing notes. Don’t linger on them or stop on them, keep them passing.
• In making your bass line help yourself to those notes, just use them correctly.
• Roots, fives, eights and the correct 3 & 7 will play a lot of bass.

OK fine, how to use all that I know is the question. Print the above then with this paper in hand listen to what Scott has to say in this video:

 

[BAG]

Lets leave modes alone for now.

I agree. The OP doesn't need any confusion at this early stage.

 

[elgecko]

yes, they are.
I suggest that you now learn where every C is on your fret board, every D, every E, etc.
EDIT: Also, play your C major scale notes up and down each string.

Next, do some research on (or google) Modes of the Major scale.
There are scales within the C major scale (no different notes). for example:
C D E F G A B C
D E F G A B C D
E F G A B C D E etc., Use the first note of each mode as the tonal center and you will hear the different scales.

here is the first hit from a google search for 'Modes of the Major Scale':
Music Theory: Modes of the Major Scale
this will unlock a lot and should keep you busy for a bit ;-)

What are talking about? The scale shown in F# major. How in the world will studying modes possibly explain how a F# major scale is a C major scale?

 

[devnulljp]

Just go to Online Bass Lessons - Scott's Bass Lessons
It'll all become clear

 

[osonu]

Thanks MalcolmAmos, haven't seen so much of this in one place so clear and concise- very helpful! I'll be working/playing with this for a while.