scale shapes

[PauFerro]

There is a DEAD EASY way of learning the major scale (and all its modes). After years of avoiding the hassle of memorizing all the many apparent shapes for these scales, I stumbled across an approach that had me learn all the modes, mentally, in about 10 minutes. About an hour with this four-note, pattern-based approach I had all the modes in my fingers. I now have total freedom over the entire neck when soloing or improvising supportive bass lines. To the point I don't have to think about it much.

Basically, you learn 4 note "tetrachords". To create any of the modes, you simply stack two tetrachords together.

Here is the major tetrachord, for a G major scale
G
D
A x|B|C|x|
E x|x|G|x|A

To create a full, 8-note major scale, you stack two of these major tetrachords on top of each other, separated by a whole step. See how this works below, with the first major tetra chord we did above in italics, and the second major tetrachord in bold. Notice how each major tetrachord is EXACTLY the same pattern/shape.

G
D x|x|x|F#|G|x
A x|B|C|x |D|x|E|
E x|x|G|x |A

Essentially, you boil down all 7 modes to four, four-note patterns you string together in pairs. And the patterns are so easy, four of the patterns are exactly the same tetrachord stacked on top of itself.

If you or anyone finds this approach useful, let me know and I will share the other 3 tetrachord shapes and how to put them together to create the dorian, phrygian, mixolydian, lydian, aeolian and locrian scales. It is DEAD EASY!!!

 

[NightCat]

Might I suggest you buy one not Bass music book:
Edly's Music Theory For Practical People - Third Edition

Super well written and fun to work through.

 

[rogerb]

Man those tetrachords are pretty cool. I'd never heard of them, or just some sort of brain skip whenever I saw it mentioned, not sure which.

A lot of shifting, but super cool none the less. Nice to break it down into smaller chunks for my little non-spongey brain.
Lesson: Scale Patterns from Tetrachord Combinations

 

[PauFerro]

Man those tetrachords are pretty cool. I'd never heard of them, or just some sort of brain skip whenever I saw it mentioned, not sure which.

A lot of shifting, but super cool none the less. Nice to break it down into smaller chunks for my little non-spongey brain.
Lesson: Scale Patterns from Tetrachord Combinations

Regarding all the shifting -- I agree it requires shifting, but you end up being able to traverse a lot of more of the neck. If you take my example above, you can start ANOTHER G-major tetrachord where the scale leaves off on the D-string, which means you end up using 7 frets worth of neck from simply staking 3 of these major tetrachords on top of each other, and adding one note.

Regarding the link above -- I think they only get to the guts of what I'm talking about in the multi-colored table where they indicate the Dorian scale is two Dorian/Dorian tetras, Mixolydian is made up of Major /Dorian tetrsa, Phrygian is a Phrygian/Phrygian pair, etcetera. That is the guts of it.

Back to shifting -- being able to cruise more of the neck makes for more interesting solos than are possible when you stay in one place.

As Pat Metheny said, if you're playing all in one place, "he's heard it before", which to me, means he thinks it's boring or lacking innovation...because everyone is doing it. Better to go all over the place for at least part of your solo...when you need it.

 

[Sav'nBass]

Man those tetrachords are pretty cool. I'd never heard of them, or just some sort of brain skip whenever I saw it mentioned, not sure which.

A lot of shifting, but super cool none the less. Nice to break it down into smaller chunks for my little non-spongey brain.
Lesson: Scale Patterns from Tetrachord Combinations

Yeah that article is nice..

This may help you a little further down the road.. I made this chart for myself to wrap my head around this stuff.

I have been playing for a while but I took a long break and I got back in the swing of things around 2001.. I never really took the time to actually study bass before. I spent most of my time just learning songs which was enough for what I was doing at the time but I decided I wanted to elevate my playing so I began to do the work that I neglected all these years.. I made this chart for myself so that I could better learn my scales and modes.. I used the Fretboard Printer on StudyBass.com and some stuff from some other books I had and put these charts together. They're best printed out on 12x18 cardstock.. The chart was made with a 5 string bass in mind and starts on the C but since it uses intervals you can kind of insert them anywhere. I also put the chord relationships under each scale .. as in say for instance in the Major/Ionioan scale the chord struvture is Major minor minor Major Major minor Diminished for the 1,2,3,4,5,6 & 7 tones.. The numeric analysis of chords chart breaks down the chord structure of various chords.. Anyway.. if you want it you can download the charts below and take them to Staples or something and just have them printed.

This article at SB does a great job of explaining why you should not spend too much time on scales and modes (with the exception of the major, natural minor scale, mixolydian, major and minor pentatonic and blues scales) just yet until you get some other things in your head.

Scott's is a great site.. so is the Music College TV , Coursera FREE online music instruction from Berklee and Marlowe DK.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[dgrizzly]

There is a DEAD EASY way of learning the major scale (and all its modes). After years of avoiding the hassle of memorizing all the many apparent shapes for these scales, I stumbled across an approach that had me learn all the modes, mentally, in about 10 minutes. About an hour with this four-note, pattern-based approach I had all the modes in my fingers. I now have total freedom over the entire neck when soloing or improvising supportive bass lines. To the point I don't have to think about it much.

Basically, you learn 4 note "tetrachords". To create any of the modes, you simply stack two tetrachords together.

Here is the major tetrachord, for a G major scale
E
D
A x|B|C|x|
E x|x|G|x|A

To create a full, 8-note major scale, you stack two of these major tetrachords on top of each other, separated by a whole step. See how this works below, with the first major tetra chord we did above in italics, and the second major tetrachord in bold. Notice how each major tetrachord is EXACTLY the same pattern/shape.

E
D x|x|x|F#|G|x
A x|B|C|x |D|x|E|
E x|x|G|x |A

Essentially, you boil down all 7 modes to four, four-note patterns you string together in pairs. And the patterns are so easy, four of the patterns are exactly the same tetrachord stacked on top of itself.

If you or anyone finds this approach useful, let me know and I will share the other 3 tetrachord shapes and how to put them together to create the dorian, phrygian, mixolydian, lydian, aeolian and locrian scales. It is DEAD EASY!!!

I am working on learning modes and found this to be an interesting way to approach it. If you don't mind sharing your shapes for the rest of the modes, I certainly think it would be useful for myself and others.

 

[13lues]

For each scale you learn. Learn how to play it in 3 different positions. It will make learning the fret board much easier. (for example start with your pinky on the A for A pentatonic..then with your pointer…then by doing a slide up)

 

[The Ryantist]

I think the original post was meant to imply numbers as fingers (1=index, 2=middle, etc) rather than frets (except there's a typo on the D string). That is the shape that is movable.

 

[PauFerro]

For each scale you learn. Learn how to play it in 3 different positions. It will make learning the fret board much easier. (for example start with your pinky on the A for A pentatonic..then with your pointer…then by doing a slide up)

Sure, when I get a chance I will diagram it out and share it here. I am thinking of writing a little book on it at some point. Posting an abbreviated explanation might be a good way of seeing if the way I explain it is understandable.

 

[Rocktometrist]

Hey OP: ignore half of what is posted here--no reason to confuse yourself with modes and multiple scale patterns when you're still learning the basics of a major scale.

The first few posters gave great advice--learn the basic major scale shape (which you did), figure out where the notes on the fretboard are (sounds like you're on it), and learn how the scale shapes relate to the notes on the board (like how you have to start the pattern on the root note). As I think you've gathered by now, that single major scale shape will allow you to play ANY major scale, as long as you "start" it on the desired root note. Also know that you can play the scale going up or down from the root (so if you start on the "C" on the A string, you can play down the scale and hit that G and A you were asking about).

Start playing that major scale, up and down. Listen to what it sounds like. Play the notes out of order and make bass lines (focus on ideas based around the root and fifth scale degree at first--those notes are a bassist's bread and butter). Pretty quickly, you'll start to hear what a major scale sounds like, and you'll instantly hear it if you hit a wrong note. That's important, because as you start learning other scale shapes, you'll be able to hear how they sound compared to that basic major scale--it will give you a baseline (no pun intended) from which you can compare other chord flavors and scale shapes.

Sounds like you're asking the right questions. Good luck and have fun!

 

[Mushroo]

Why learn the major scale from some boring old book when you can learn it from the fabulous Julie Andrews instead? Watch The Sound of Music and sing/play along with the song "Do Re Me"! When you know the notes to sing, you can sing most anything.

 

[Lownote38]

Learn the note names and where they are. If you associate with shapes and boxes, you'll get stuck in the learning process.

 

[PauFerro]

Hey OP: ignore half of what is posted here--no reason to confuse yourself with modes and multiple scale patterns when you're still learning the basics of a major scale.

OP -- don't fall into the trap of being excited about one approach (that may even appear to work for you), and then having someone invalidate it. Listening to too many people's opinions over the years really stalled my progress. And then this pattern happened. I learned approach X to a problem. I started using it and really liked it -- started progressing. Then a die hard player told me emphatically my approach was wrong. He said I should be using approach Y given massive deficiencies in Approach X. So, I listened to him, and started from near scratch again using approach Y. In retrospect, his approach didn't work for my conceptual mind, but I respected his ability to play, and his university degree in music, so I started using approach Y. Then I shared Approach Y with a long-time musician as my current approach to the problem. He criticized the approach and told me his approach was better. Upon explanation, he had explained Approach X -- that I had abandoned for Approach Y. I had come full circle, and had experienced much frustration and stalled confidence in the process.

At this point I'd had it. I realized there are multiple ways of approaching a musical problem. And they can all be correct. And some are better for individual players than others. Some have brains that reject note-reading, either for its overwhelmingness, or the fact that it's tedious to learn it. Others are pattern-based and think in concepts, not individual notes and detail. There are people who are a combination (myself).

Pick whatever method makes the most sense to you, and get all you can about it. Don't be distracted by so many voices pulling you in different directions.

I personally find the modes very rich as they help me see more than one pattern on the fingerboard than learning a simple major scale. I have created many riffs that use transposition of a lick from one tetrachord to another tetrachord of the same shape on the keyboard. And I remember that riff after creating it once. Others may reach my level with only the major scale in hand. Decide what makes the most sense to you and stick with it, with confidence.

 

[13lues]

OP -- don't fall into the trap of being excited about one approach (that may even appear to work for you), and then having someone invalidate it. Listening to too many people's opinions over the years really stalled my progress. And then this pattern happened. I learned approach X to a problem. I started using it and really liked it -- started progressing. Then a die hard player told me emphatically my approach was wrong. He said I should be using approach Y given massive deficiencies in Approach X. So, I listened to him, and started from near scratch again using approach Y. In retrospect, his approach didn't work for my conceptual mind, but I respected his ability to play, and his university degree in music, so I started using approach Y. Then I shared Approach Y with a long-time musician as my current approach to the problem. He criticized the approach and told me his approach was better. Upon explanation, he had explained Approach X -- that I had abandoned for Approach Y. I had come full circle, and had experienced much frustration and stalled confidence in the process.

At this point I'd had it. I realized there are multiple ways of approaching a musical problem. And they can all be correct. And some are better for individual players than others. Some have brains that reject note-reading, either for its overwhelmingness, or the fact that it's tedious to learn it. Others are pattern-based and think in concepts, not individual notes and detail. There are people who are a combination (myself).

Pick whatever method makes the most sense to you, and get all you can about it. Don't be distracted by so many voices pulling you in different directions.

I personally find the modes very rich as they help me see more than one pattern on the fingerboard than learning a simple major scale. I have created many riffs that use transposition of a lick from one tetrachord to another tetrachord of the same shape on the keyboard. And I remember that riff after creating it once. Others may reach my level with only the major scale in hand. Decide what makes the most sense to you hear and stick with it, with confidence.

Agreed. Do what works for you, and keep an open mind. I personally learned by memorizing patterns. There was the "Christmas tree scale" (whole tone) etc. I would play through the scale and say each note out loud until I knew where each one was. Then move the scale to a different key and repeat the process. Once you make that first breakthrough in understanding, you'll probably get addicted to learning.

 

[Rocktometrist]

I personally find the modes very rich as they help me see more than one pattern on the fingerboard than learning a simple major scale. I have created many riffs that use transposition of a lick from one tetrachord to another tetrachord of the same shape on the keyboard. And I remember that riff after creating it once. Others may reach my level with only the major scale in hand. Decide what makes the most sense to you and stick with it, with confidence.

To reinforce the point: I'm a gigging jazz musician, and regularly get called for gigs where I've never met the other musicians or heard any of the tunes (sometimes they're originals). I show up at the gig, read some charts (or use my ear if the changes are simple), get paid, and go home. And you know what? I've never had the slightest use for tetrachords. For me, knowing scales and arpeggiations gets me where I need to be. And, yes, knowing basic scale patterns is hugely beneficial to me. When I play walking lines, I choose a scale I want to play over the chord on the fly, and because I know patterns, I immediately know where each scale degree is under my fingers (and, of course, I use my ear to create interesting passing and leading tones). No fuss, no muss. No constant evaluation of thoeretical mumbo-jumbo or overly-complicated fingering schemes. Just simple tools that get out of the way and allow me to focus on making music.

I would agree, though, that at early stages in your learning, picking an approach that makes sense to you and running with it is key. If you start getting pulled in a million directions, that just gets confusing. Learning a major scale backwards and forwards is a very good place to start.

 

[mambo4]

Learning a major scale backwards and forwards is a very good place to start.

I've been playing for 20+years, and as far as I can tell, this is also where you end up.

 

[Doug Parent]

sub'ed

 

[PauFerro]

To reinforce the point: I'm a gigging jazz musician, and regularly get called for gigs where I've never met the other musicians or heard any of the tunes (sometimes they're originals). I show up at the gig, read some charts (or use my ear if the changes are simple), get paid, and go home. And you know what? I've never had the slightest use for tetrachords.

This is a phenomenal example of what I'm talking about. Rocktometrist has an impressive pedigree in bass playing, and for me, has qualified himself as an authority on the subject of music.

But he has never had the slightest use for tetrachords. In his mind, they are unnecessary for the list of convincing reasons he has given.

I too am a gigging jazz musician. I too have had to show up and play charts that people throw at me, but for me, tetrachords were a major (no pun intended) breakthrough in unlocking my potential and boosting my confidence on the fretboard. I also play with some of the top players in town. Often, they will ask me to play a vanity tune (a tune they just want to do) and I have to play off it, and even take a solo if they look at me. So, I play a lot too.

I think each method is right for each of us. In fact, Rocktometrist believes that knowing a major scale frontwards and backwards and upside down it a great exercise. I would argue that understanding it from multiple perspectives, including a modal, tetrachord perspective. provides even greater confidence and skill than learning it from one solitary perspective -- in my opinion.

I have also found that knowing the modes has helped me in the following ways:

1. I was in a rehearsal, and a musician, when explaining unwritten riffs we needed to play in unison, would express them according to their mode. "It's phrygian on F" he would say. I knew exactly what he meant.

2. I could associate modes with chords -- Dorian works well over minor seventh chords, I have found. Mixolydian over Dominant 7ths. Aeolian on chords built on the sixth degree of a specific key center I might be in.

3. The modes, expressed as tetrachords, gave me a lightening fast way of learning the modes, and thus, understanding musical concepts from a variety of perspectives. I swear by them as learning the major scale in isolation didn't work for me -- for years.

In fact, I'm thinking of seeing if there are easy patterns for learning the pentatonic modes now....not sure -- I use the pentatonic scale a lot on the first and fifth degree of the major scale, and the minor pentatonic on different chords within a key center (sort of unconsciously, I need to formalize what I do). This tetrachord concept will be the first place I go to, in order to explore a more formal way of using those scales that fits a language and approach that makes me start shaking with excitement every time I consider it

 

[Rocktometrist]

This is a phenomenal example of what I'm talking about. Rocktometrist has an impressive pedigree in bass playing, and for me, has qualified himself as an authority on the subject of music.

But he has never had the slightest use for tetrachords. In his mind, they are unnecessary for the list of convincing reasons he has given.

I too am a gigging jazz musician. I too have had to show up and play charts that people throw at me, but for me, tetrachords were a major (no pun intended) breakthrough in unlocking my potential and boosting my confidence on the fretboard. I also play with some of the top players in town. Often, they will ask me to play a vanity tune (a tune they just want to do) and I have to play off it, and even take a solo if they look at me. So, I play a lot too.

I think each method is right for each of us. In fact, Rocktometrist believes that knowing a major scale frontwards and backwards and upside down it a great exercise. I would argue that understanding it from multiple perspectives, including a modal, tetrachord perspective. provides even greater confidence and skill than learning it from one solitary perspective -- in my opinion.

I have also found that knowing the modes has helped me in the following ways:

1. I was in a rehearsal, and a musician, when explaining unwritten riffs we needed to play in unison, would express them according to their mode. "It's phrygian on F" he would say. I knew exactly what he meant.

2. I could associate modes with chords -- Dorian works well over minor seventh chords, I have found. Mixolydian over Dominant 7ths. Aeolian on chords built on the sixth degree of a specific key center I might be in.

3. The modes, expressed as tetrachords, gave me a lightening fast way of learning the modes, and thus, understanding musical concepts from a variety of perspectives. I swear by them as learning the major scale in isolation didn't work for me -- for years.

In fact, I'm thinking of seeing if there are easy patterns for learning the pentatonic modes now....not sure -- I use the pentatonic scale a lot on the first and fifth degree of the major scale, and the minor pentatonic on different chords within a key center (sort of unconsciously, I need to formalize what I do). This tetrachord concept will be the first place I go to, in order to explore a more formal way of using those scales that fits a language and approach that makes me start shaking with excitement every time I consider it

Haha, I don't know about an "impressive pedigree in bass playing" (I'm more like a scruffy mutt of bass playing), but I get some calls. Don't misunderstand me--I know all the modal scales backwards and forwards, too (and use them a lot when deciding what I'm going to play over any given chord). But real talk time? Major, minor, and mixolydian (and their pentatonic equivalents) get a guy about 75% of the way there--especially on bass. My point was that for someone who is just starting out, filling their heads with a bunch of Greek nomenclature isn't really that helpful. Let the poor guy get a handle on the major scale--the mother of them ALL, before branching out into esoteric theory. No matter what approach you're using, I think learning to crawl before you run is pretty much universal!

 

[PauFerro]

I think a good approach is to start with the major scale, then move on to the Mixolydian as they are the same except for one note position. If you want to simplify. Then move on to the pentatonic off the major and fifth position, then the dorian...build it slowly. That is what I did. Then I learned the tetrachord concept and there was a musical explosion.