Scales and Noodling

[bassinplace]

Props to JimmyM and Skitch It! On any other forum site the OP would have been crucified somewhere between the "bitter much" and "personal attacks" accusations, but you guys showed some real class. Tough love is still love. Hopefully we will all benefit from the wisdom in your posts.

And as for "there is no art in [theoretical] physics" comment, I'm certainly glad that Einstein didn't get the memo.

Just gotta keep stirring the pot, eh? In my defense, I would like to point out I never said creativity and technical skill were mutually exclusive. I don't know where JM got that idea from. I just made a comment about inspiration, and he came out of left field telling me I was full of crap. I was then informed I have no experience, which JM has no idea of my background or level of experience. I have 16 years of experience as a drummer which I had to cease due to an injury. That's why I've picked up the bass. I spend hours a day with it. I've had to put that down a couple of times too due to medical reasons, but I always manage to pick it back up.

Since the time I started, I've probably got about a solid year of practice time in. Also 1-2 rehearsals a week with my new band learning their original songbook. It's pretty big too, in the neighborhood of 20 songs. So, telling a person you know nothing about that they have no experience and that their opinion doesn't count, isn't exactly what I would call a shining example of tact in any case. Nor is it very constructive.

I thought I could get some helpful advice around here and I have, but stuff like this makes me think my time might more productively spent elsewhere. There's still a lot of good stuff to read here and links though. Maybe I'll just stick to that and leave the posting to the experts.

 

[Skitch it!]

I've heard tell that Coltrane spent hours a day playing every damn scale and mode he could get his hands on, just so he'd have it at his fingertips if he wanted. This is just what some bloke told me.

Yes, is the point I was making, he did the work, then made it subconscious, it's a bit difficult to flow if your thinking which degree of Super Locrian would be the correct one when it's all flying past

One thing I do know of bass characteristics, and that includes myself, is that we are mostly sensitive cat's, and more power to us for it.

I'd like to think that what may have been said yesterday, may have a different angle today, jus' saying

 

[bassinplace]

I've heard tell that Coltrane spent hours a day playing every damn scale and mode he could get his hands on, just so he'd have it at his fingertips if he wanted. This is just what some bloke told me.

Then again, I think a surprising number of bassists that have inspired highly proficient TB'ers with their creativity were less schooled than you would imagine. I'm just some bloke saying this.

Right. In that sense I think scales and chords can be likened to learning to read and write the spoken word. A person can still be very elequent without it, but can communicate on a much broader scale and deeper level if the knowledge has been wired into the brain.

 

[Skitch it!]

Right. In that sense I think scales and chords can be likened to learning to read and write the spoken word. A person can still be very elequent without it, but can communicate on a much broader scale and deeper level if the knowledge has been wired into the brain.

+1 You get the vocabulary together, then find your own voice within it and inflect as you see/hear it ; )

 

[CGramazio]

Found this link to a video with Stanley Clarke that I thought would add very nicely to this discussion.

Stanley plays with the interviewer in the middle (and it's quite nice) but around the 8:55 mark he starts to touch on some of the subjects discussed here, keep watching it until the end.

Check it out, it's worth it if just to watch Stanley play:

http://barefootmusicnews.com/blog1.php/2011/02/04/fascinating-conversation-with-bassist-stanley-clarke-part-two

 

[SpartacusAudion]

That's a great clip. Man, Stanley really sums things up.

Ear counts and styles/genre's change but some solid theory anchors give you a foundation that will make you flexible...maybe just "able" for years regardless.

I love what he says about "levels of reading"... when I read "reading" in earlier posts the first thing I thought was staff. Charts, on the other hand, give guidance sort of like guideposts, waypoints and a compass heading. But with some fundamentals in theory, you also have a kind of GPS navigation between those waypoints, regardless of any natural "sense of direction".

Just my nickels worth. Great clip....thx.

 

[bassinplace]

Found this link to a video with Stanley Clarke that I thought would add very nicely to this discussion.

Stanley plays with the interviewer in the middle (and it's quite nice) but around the 8:55 mark he starts to touch on some of the subjects discussed here, keep watching it until the end.

Check it out, it's worth it if just to watch Stanley play:

http://barefootmusicnews.com/blog1.php/2011/02/04/fascinating-conversation-with-bassist-stanley-clarke-part-two

Great interview. Thanks.

 

[DanGrigor]

Great interview. Thanks.

Hiya folks! Thanks for listening. What an experience this was for me. I've been a SC fan since... Forever. This was a dream come true.

Here's a link to our playlist The Stanley Clarke Collection.
It has parts one and two and I will be adding part three probably tomorrow. You heard it here first.
It also includes some great jazz from the Roxboro Entertainment Launch Party. The playlist will be updated over the next few weeks with more from all the Roxboro artists and the all star jam session. Enjoy!

What an amazing interview. So comfortable and easy. He raises some excellent points about theory vs. feel.
I tend to agree, you need as much as you need. Some folks are naturally able to be technical geniuses without knowing a lick of theory or being able to read or write notation.

As a guitar player I depend on the bass for my base. It's the rumble of the train we're all riding on. Steady, rock steady, while being able to improvise or create melodic lines that stay rock steady while providing a counterpoint to my octaves, that's what I like. I love it when a bass player can keep me in time while kickin' my ass at the same time.

low freqs rule!
I hope to learn a lot from you people, don't let me down.

upcoming soonwe have an interview with Carol Kaye. I'll let you know here first.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

Again this thing about scales and the lost or missed point about their benefit to the hands. Played correctly on the fretboard and with the correct fingering, scales are a physical work out for developing the hands to start with, not the brain.

To anyone that picks up the bass, (or any instrument) it is all physical, the mental side of application and what is possible does not even enter into it.
Practising scales will get you moving faster in developing the physical side of playing, as well as teaching basic fundamentals to build on, safer and faster than any other method i know. Because of there nature and ease of learning they are ideal for developing the hands and ears for things to come.
Once a certain physical standard has been achieved then the mental side can take over and build a case for practice and learning. Then it becomes a mental task to play and understand the new things you are learning, not a physical one.

To any player after learning the physical side and developing it so the mental side can dominate it, then it is always the physical side playing catch up to the mental side. The physical art of playing is lead by the need to be able to play what you learn, as you learn new and more intricate ideas, your hands need to play them, if not, then they will need to develop what is required because it is purely a physical endeavour only. You really cannot work out and play as you go, or try and develop something that is not clear in your mind what your goal is, or be led by techniques, it must be, after that initial physical thing at the start of learning, all come from the mind.

A rut is a mental block of not developing new ideas, it is a safe place to be because it is everything you can do with ease..it feels safe, its a comfort zone of sorts.
Physically you are ahead of your brain, you have great skills and playability, but are lost on how to apply them or develop it further.
Get the brain to learn and understand some new ideas and learn something new and the rut will go because now the brain is getting ahead of the physical side of playing.
Beware!!! keep the ratio between the two close enough, or you can end up overwhelmed, frustrated or despondent that you will never get there, and you will fall into old habits and be back in that rut.

 

[monroe55]

Again this thing about scales and the lost or missed point about their benefit to the hands. Played correctly on the fretboard and with the correct fingering, scales are a physical work out for developing the hands to start with, not the brain.

To anyone that picks up the bass, (or any instrument) it is all physical, the mental side of application and what is possible does not even enter into it.
Practising scales will get you moving faster in developing the physical side of playing, as well as teaching basic fundamentals to build on, safer and faster than any other method i know. Because of there nature and ease of learning they are ideal for developing the hands and ears for things to come.
Once a certain physical standard has been achieved then the mental side can take over and build a case for practice and learning. Then it becomes a mental task to play and understand the new things you are learning, not a physical one.

To any player after learning the physical side and developing it so the mental side can dominate it, then it is always the physical side playing catch up to the mental side. The physical art of playing is lead by the need to be able to play what you learn, as you learn new and more intricate ideas, your hands need to play them, if not, then they will need to develop what is required because it is purely a physical endeavour only. You really cannot work out and play as you go, or try and develop something that is not clear in your mind what your goal is, or be led by techniques, it must be, after that initial physical thing at the start of learning, all come from the mind.

A rut is a mental block of not developing new ideas, it is a safe place to be because it is everything you can do with ease..it feels safe, its a comfort zone of sorts.
Physically you are ahead of your brain, you have great skills and playability, but are lost on how to apply them or develop it further.
Get the brain to learn and understand some new ideas and learn something new and the rut will go because now the brain is getting ahead of the physical side of playing.
Beware!!! keep the ratio between the two close enough, or you can end up overwhelmed, frustrated or despondent that you will never get there, and you will fall into old habits and be back in that rut.

How inspiring. That was, beautiful.
++1 on what Fergie says.

Did Stanley Clark say he wrote the music for PeeWee's PlayHouse??? Awesome!

 

[DanGrigor]

How inspiring. That was, beautiful.
++1 on what Fergie says.

Did Stanley Clark say he wrote the music for PeeWee's PlayHouse??? Awesome!

Great story wasn't it? Well our site got hacked so I'm a little late but I am sneak peeking this to you guys first before I release it into the wild.

thanks for listening

Here's part three of the interview.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPQCCkTEF4k

I'll post a note when the real story hits.

Congrats to Stanley and the whole band. The album "The Stanley Clarke Band" won the Grammy for best contemporary jazz

 

[JTE]

The physical art of playing is lead by the need to be able to play what you learn, as you learn new and more intricate ideas, your hands need to play them, if not, then they will need to develop what is required because it is purely a physical endeavour only. You really cannot work out and play as you go, or try and develop something that is not clear in your mind what your goal is, or be led by techniques, it must be, after that initial physical thing at the start of learning, all come from the mind.

I recall a Stanley Clarke interview where he said they all wrote some things in RTF that they still (about ten years later) couldn't physically play. Some of the ideas were just being developed in order to challenge the physical side, but the mental was leading the way.

Beware!!! keep the ratio between the two close enough, or you can end up overwhelmed, frustrated or despondent that you will never get there, and you will fall into old habits and be back in that rut.

Great! I love this- if more people were aware of this I think there'd be fewer "anyone who plays more than the root is a wanker" and "that guy sucks, he only plays roots" dichotomy in the music world. This is an area where a gifted teacher can be a tremendous help- constantly working the balance of what the student needs.

John