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Scale's harder going up than down

evilleotter

evilleotter

Jun 8, 2018
72
115
E'ville IN
#1
Forgive me if my nomenclature is not correct, it's been a long time since band class!!

Last night I was practicing some scales and scale progressions and when I was working on 2nd's scale progression (1-3-2-4-3-5-4-6-5-7-6-8-7-9-8), I realized that I am competent going down the scale (8-1) but not very competent going up the scale (1-8). Normal scales I'm fine both ways on regular progression, and even good both ways with 3rd's progression, 1-4-2-5-3-6.....but not the 2nd's. Does anyone else have trouble with some progressions and not others? Is there something that might help with the 2nd's, other than drilling over and over, that might speed along my progress with this particular jump pattern? I know practice makes perfect, but thought I'd throw it out there to the TB world for some insight. Thanks!
 
#3
Yes --- going up is easier for me. However, we do not play scales, we practice scales. First things first. There is just so much we can cram into a day. In Praise it's 6 to 7 chords, but, just roots. In rock it's a three to four chord progression that repeats itself and a root-five gets it done.

Everything else beyond that, is just gravy -- Its gravy that we are speaking of here. Practice will make it better, slow down and enjoy your time with the gravy...
 
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#5
If I was finding that I would immediately think my alternate picking technique was going out the window. Which would be a worry for me. Well.. I'd want to work on it. But may not be for you. I practice scales and exercises so I have a solid foundation to work on the things that are hard to do. Also many people use raking on descending runs to increase their speed. So there's a case that it is a good thing.

If you are concerned, maybe check what your right hand is doing.
 
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#7
BassChuck said:
I've been playing bass for 43 years. Everyday I find something else I can't do as well as I want. I have a special phrase I say when I discover this: "Well, there's something I need to work on today".
Perfection is a fools errand. Just do something better today than yesterday. Find something to work on for tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Agree. All I will add is pay sufficient attention to what you do today and the stuff for tomorrow will present itself without too much searching!
:thumbsup:
 
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#8
Going up has always been easier for me.

On the way up on a single string fingers are added one by one until all four are down. On the way down, you start by putting all four fingers down on the string, then release fingers as you descend.

That's always been hard for me and I'm pretty sloppy. Sometimes I can get all the fingers down, sometimes I might have the pinky down and the other three fingers still up. This really impacts playing fast passages, expecially when bowing on the DB. You'd thnk after 40+ years I'd have this down...
 
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#9
What @factory presets said.

Check your right hand! You may have a plucking system that works well for ascending, but need something different for descending.

Lots of different schools of thought on the right hand method.
A one off lesson from a good teacher may save you a lot of retraining later.
 
#10
Practice it slowly and deliberately and out of time, notice what both hands are doing and find the easiest execution.

Practice that very slowly every time you pick up your bass and you’ll find your brain will eventually lock it in as a new sequence of movements in time.
 
#11
dreamadream99 said:
I find coming down is always easier than going up because of raking to the next string. Whilst coming down, the last finger to play on a string just slides down to play the next note on the next string. Not so going up. Each new string requires a fresh new articulation.

Crossing strings is always quicker and easier heading down.
Click to expand...

Yes this. Raking is making downward scales more fast and easy on electric bass. Usually up is slower than down. That's normal. On double bass going up is easier when you play on one string. Because of gravity.
 
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#12
brianrost said:
...

On the way up on a single string fingers are added one by one until all four are down. On the way down, you start by putting all four fingers down on the string, then release fingers as you descend.
...
Click to expand...

This approach is absolutely not necessary on the electric bass.
I started learning bass that way but gave it up when I started learning the Stick in 1988 because that approach just doesn't work with touch-style playing. It wasn't a deliberate decision, it just happened that way - something I learned from the Stick crossed back over into my bass playing. As a fretless player I also find having only one finger on the string at any one time helps with consistency of intonation, tone and vibrato between fingers. It also allows for faster shifting, more flexibility in fingering choices and better mobility around the fingerboard.
And since I also eliminated raking in favour of strict alternation in the right hand I honestly find very little difference between ascending or descending.
YMMV.
 
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#13
brianrost said:
Going up has always been easier for me.

On the way up on a single string fingers are added one by one until all four are down. On the way down, you start by putting all four fingers down on the string, then release fingers as you descend.
Click to expand...

This is interesting to me because I can't see how it's possible to play anything with this method. Then Steve mentioned he used to play this way. I have no desire to adopt this style, but I can't make it work in my mind... I guess I'd need to see a video of it.
 
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#14
Spin Doctor said:
This is interesting to me because I can't see how it's possible to play anything with this method. Then Steve mentioned he used to play this way. I have no desire to adopt this style, but I can't make it work in my mind... I guess I'd need to see a video of it.
Click to expand...

It is something from the Simandl method. I think a lot of early electric bass instructional material, at least the stuff I was using, was written by electric players who had made the transition from double-bass (Herb Mickman and Stanley Clarke come to mind) and so a lot of the techniques were carried over without too much thought as to the applicability, necessity or relevance to electric bass.

It occurred to me that timing, and in particular playing in a true legaty style, required accurate synchronisation of left and right hands, but that using this method required development of two separate technical elements. Firstly, when ascending, getting the next finger down on time. Secondly, descending, getting the previous finger out of the way on time is the most important aspect. So 2 different methods for essentially the same thing - playing a note. Once I started playing the Stick I realised that the in all cases both things were equally important all of the time - ascending, descending or playing the same note, the thing that mattered was getting the next finger down on time AND having the previous finger out of the way. Having lower fingers already on the string actually prevents the basic touch-style technique from working properly. The important point is that the technique is the same whichever way you are going. So I tried the 'only one finger on any one string at a time' approach with bass and it worked.

On a more general note, electric bass is nothing like string bass in terms of scale length/note spacing, string tension or playing action, so IMHO, as the physical constraints of the instrument no longer need to be considered, the elements of technique designed to overcome them also lose importance.

YMMV

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#17
It's a practice that minimizes efforts and movements. It avoids noise when stopping the string against the fret and slightly mutes it.
All in all it helps speed and clarity through a better control of the strings.
When playing fast, it being legato/sweeping or staccato bursts of notes you take all the help you can.
 

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