Scalpers..Are They Helping Kill Live Music?

[ZenG]

By scalpers, are you referring to the Joes on the street selling tix on the day of the show? Hardly a problem. Or do you mean the (now) highly organized computer mafia algorithm that purchases thousands of tix at a time known as the "secondary ticket market"? Yeah, that's a problem. But I suspect it won't go anywhere, not until the real cartel of ticket promoting companies is stopped, at least. Somehow, we still let Ticketmaster and their ilk handle ticket sales, and there is absolutely no need for their middleman services. Yet, they have a monopoly, and we have to pay their ludicrous service fees, despite the fact they don't actually provide a service. If exorbitant ticket costs are harming live music, then yes both scalpers and their frenemies the promoters share some blame. I for one limit how many big shows I go to because of the costs.

I was mostly referring to the online bots/scalpers etc. that suck up all the tickets (and choice seating) with one press of a keyboard button.

 

[LowDownHawkeye]

Not really a solution then, is it?

The real solution is to limit credit card purchases to in-state card holders.

Tix to everything here in Buffalo get sold out in microseconds to California card holders.

The local paper did some investigative journalism on this a year or more ago.

Couldn’t the brokers just have a credit card tied to an address in every state with a big venue?

 

[40Hz]

Scalpers have been around since time began. No, it has nothing to do with it.

Agree.

I think insane traffic, bad parking arrangements (also with their own separate exorbitant fees), running a phalanx of overly aggressive police outside the venue, dealing with bring groped and wanded by snarky house “security” goons inside the venue, and sitting cherk by jowl with a group of drunken loudmouths who have no intention of actually watching the show since they’re just there to “do the scene” with their moron friends and video each other has a lot more to do with many people not bothering with live shows these days.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Maybe limit number of tickets per card. The other option is to eliminate on line sales. But we know that isn't gonna happen.

 

[ZenG]

Scalpers have been around since time began. No, it has nothing to do with it.

Yes...ordinary street scalpers have been. But nothing like the online variety today...

 

[bassliner50]

Scalpers? No. The aloof public..yes.

 

[markjazzbassist]

Bots = main issue
Acts charging too Much = secondary issue

Those 2 the bigs for me. Kill the bots just go back to have to buy in person at the ticket office. Wait in line. Kill online sales all together.

 

[Charlzm]

Many here claim that live music is dying.

Maybe it is..maybe it isn't.

But I see where concert tickets are offered at reasonable prices to start with..and then moments later a scalper cleans out the site by buying them all up and then reselling them for an atrocious price.

Up here in Canada, for one example,there's a guy that lives in Quebec that is known for doing this.

They'd like to go after him but he uses offshore bots and other things to get around the Canadian legalities.

There are ticket brokers that claim they are innocent and can't control scalpers. But in one doc I watched it turns out they actively promote them.

Well... I'm not paying $800 dollars to go see somebody no matter how good they are.

You?

Live music on the scale that encouragers scalpers... ahem, "brokers" to get involved seems to be doing just fine.

It's the local music scenes that seem to be dying on the vine? Pay to play, chaotic band line-ups that make no sense, weeknight shows, wall to wall tribute bands and cover bands choking out original bands, younger people just not going out to see live music like they did in previous generations... there are lots of reasons local scenes may be struggling.

Big touring acts? They're doing fine, last I checked.

 

[Ross W. Lovell]

Many here claim that live music is dying.

Maybe it is..maybe it isn't.

But I see where concert tickets are offered at reasonable prices to start with..and then moments later a scalper cleans out the site by buying them all up and then reselling them for an atrocious price.

Up here in Canada, for one example,there's a guy that lives in Quebec that is known for doing this.

They'd like to go after him but he uses offshore bots and other things to get around the Canadian legalities.

There are ticket brokers that claim they are innocent and can't control scalpers. But in one doc I watched it turns out they actively promote them.

Well... I'm not paying $800 dollars to go see somebody no matter how good they are.

You?

I think you are looking at it from the wrong perspective.

Promoter books a band for a large venue. Scalpers prebuy tickets and sell to the same people promoter normally sells to.

One difference though, scalpers buy many tickets early, unlike traditional patrons.

Promoter rarely has to cancel an event due to scalpers buying tickets early. Noticed that rarely are concerts cancelled anymore, thank the scalper or ticket brokers.

One nice feature of this is that whether or not the show sells out, the promoter has covered his expenses, though you might hear of a sell out concert only to attend a 2/3 sold show. Wonder why the empty seats, brokers didn't sell them, but they usually cover their losses with the sales of the other tickets.

Promoter no longer has to worry about cancellation fees or not selling enough tickets. The scalpers/ticket brokers are now taking care of that problem ALONG WITH, absorbing the risk.

Bands and promoter bemoan about not seeing any of that money.

Now ask yourself, for all the complaining the your local promoter does about the scalping problem, do you really think the promoter, or the band wants this problem solved?

Both are working, taking less risk, what do you think?

 

[ZenG]

I think you are looking at it from the wrong perspective.

Promoter books a band for a large venue. Scalpers prebuy tickets and sell to the same people promoter normally sells to.

One difference though, scalpers buy many tickets early, unlike traditional patrons.

Promoter rarely has to cancel an event due to scalpers buying tickets early. Noticed that rarely are concerts cancelled anymore, thank the scalper or ticket brokers.

One nice feature of this is that whether or not the show sells out, the promoter has covered his expenses, though you might hear of a sell out concert only to attend a 2/3 sold show. Wonder why the empty seats, brokers didn't sell them, but they usually cover their losses with the sales of the other tickets.

Promoter no longer has to worry about cancellation fees or not selling enough tickets. The scalpers/ticket brokers are now taking care of that problem ALONG WITH, absorbing the risk.

Bands and promoter bemoan about not seeing any of that money.

Now ask yourself, for all the complaining the your local promoter does about the scalping problem, do you really think the promoter, or the band wants this problem solved?

Both are working, taking less risk, what do you think?

I think they're ripping us off.

 

[murphy]

It is sad that good shows seem to only be for the elite....music used to be accessible to everyone

I was shocked to see the same thing for hockey events....even losing teams...maple leafs anyone???

 

[dxb]

Scalpers suck but there are other things that can kill the live music experience too. The last big outdoor concert I went to was sponsored by the city so tickets were cheap and they had so many available that I don't know if any of the shows ever sold out. All I know is I never encountered scalpers. Beyond that though, it was a mess in every possible way.

From the elaborate police-state security checkpoints with searches of everyone's bags and telling people they couldn't take any food, drinks, or even "big" cameras in with them, to not letting anyone come back in once they left, to overselling tickets to the point where the entire park was packed so tight it was impossible to move, to the horrible sound system... I have absolutely no desire to go to a show like that again.

 

[bobba66]

There are a lot of cool things I can't afford. Just have to take joy in the things I can.

 

[Hounddog409]

Yes...ordinary street scalpers have been. But nothing like the online variety today...

Where do you think the " street scalpels" got their tickets?

Come on people, this is nothing new.

 

[JMacBass65]

It is sad that good shows seem to only be for the elite....music used to be accessible to everyone

I was shocked to see the same thing for hockey events....even losing teams...maple leafs anyone???

Actually, there are lots of good shows to be had in small (300 ish) capacity venues, typically for $20 or less. Helps to have a couple of teenagers in the house to be on the lookout though.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Where do you think the " street scalpels" got their tickets?

Come on people, this is nothing new.

It's not the same.

Online scalpers can use bots to purchase hundreds of tickets in a matter of seconds. They can then sell the tickets through their own websites at a considerable markup since there is no competition as they hold all or the vast majority of the stock of tickets.

This is very common in the gaming industry, and it causes a very legal but morally questionable market that only the best off or most desperate can participate in.

 

[MordBass]

It's not the same.

Online scalpers can use bots to purchase hundreds of tickets in a matter of seconds. They can then sell the tickets through their own websites at a considerable markup since there is no competition as they hold all or the vast majority of the stock of tickets.

This is very common in the gaming industry, and it causes a very legal but morally questionable market that only the best off or most desperate can participate in.

Truth. There are ticket brokers that have numerous internet connections/computers and will purchase a mass of tickets for a show from 15 states away and then use the internet to sell them off for a profit. I have no issue with a dude that used to wait in line, buy 8 tickets and then stand out front on the day of the show to sell the tix.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Truth. There are ticket brokers that have numerous internet connections/computers and will purchase a mass of tickets for a show from 15 states away and then use the internet to sell them off for a profit. I have no issue with a dude that used to wait in line, buy 8 tickets and then stand out front on the day of the show to sell the tix.

Yep, because half the time that guy ends up having to sell for a loss 15-20 minutes after the start of the show.

 

[two fingers]

I think it would be pretty easy to stop if they wanted to do it. The problem is, they really don't care once they have the sales.

Bingo. If I am selling tickets to my club gig on the street corner, and some guy walks up and buys 150 of my $10 tickets, and then he sells them on the interwebz for $35 each, why should I care. I got what I wanted for the tickets. The fans obviously didn't habe a problem paying $35 or the tickets wouldn't have sold.

The large concert business is the same thing on a larger scale. Why should The Eagles care if their $350 nosebleed section tickets are bought up by one company and sold for $600 each? They got what they wanted for the tickets.

There's no motivation for the promoter to even try to stop the process.

Edit: And to answer Zen's question, no, they aren't killing the love music scene. The concerts are still sold out. They are just seeing to it that those with deep pockets or fast credit cards are the only ones going to shows.

 

[Frank Tuesday]

Garth Brooks is beating scalpers by allowing supply to meet demand. If a show sells out, he adds another show at the same venue. He recently played 12 shows in Chicago and 9 in Edmondton. Scalpers can't risk buying out every show, so eventually every fan that wants a ticket can buy one at face value. Who cares if the scalpers take a bath on their tickets.