- Jun 6, 2012
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Scalpers..Are They Helping Kill Live Music?
- Thread starter ZenG
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- kill live live music music
There are a lot of factors but the first answer to any question regarding any entertainment sector that is not doing as well as 20 or 30 years ago is PEOPLE ARE NOT MAKING ANY DAMN MONEY TO BE ABLE TO GO SPEND ANY MORE. The solution to that particular problem is simple and easy. Raise minimum wage to a living wage, and increase the rate on the top 2 or 3 tax brackets (and/or add more).
All our money is going to the billionaires now and guess what, billionaires go to surprisingly few concerts. Bill Gates who makes about 10 BILLION A YEAR, which is about 10,000 times more than someone who is fairly well off (making 100k) does NOT go to 10,000 more concerts than that upper middle class person. That extreme concentration of wealth KILLS consumer demand and spending and of course something "optional" like music/art/etc... is going to be the first to go. You can argue with this, but you will be wrong, so save yourself the embarassment.
But high ticket prices are also a big problem. I would have loved to see Roger Waters on any of his last 2 or 3 tours, but it was like $200 for nosebleed seats which shouldn't be more than about $50 to see Jesus himself come back from the dead. Progressive taxes would kill the incentive to charge that much so he's making a million a night just for himself. Why bother if 80% goes to uncle sam?
Scalping by ticket "services" (lol) is definitely another huge problem. This definitely needs a multi-pronged approach because it's a multi layered problem and you have to get rid of scalpers while not also harming consumers. Honestly we need a complete overhaul and restart of ticket sales regulations and practices.
All our money is going to the billionaires now and guess what, billionaires go to surprisingly few concerts. Bill Gates who makes about 10 BILLION A YEAR, which is about 10,000 times more than someone who is fairly well off (making 100k) does NOT go to 10,000 more concerts than that upper middle class person. That extreme concentration of wealth KILLS consumer demand and spending and of course something "optional" like music/art/etc... is going to be the first to go. You can argue with this, but you will be wrong, so save yourself the embarassment.
But high ticket prices are also a big problem. I would have loved to see Roger Waters on any of his last 2 or 3 tours, but it was like $200 for nosebleed seats which shouldn't be more than about $50 to see Jesus himself come back from the dead. Progressive taxes would kill the incentive to charge that much so he's making a million a night just for himself. Why bother if 80% goes to uncle sam?
Scalping by ticket "services" (lol) is definitely another huge problem. This definitely needs a multi-pronged approach because it's a multi layered problem and you have to get rid of scalpers while not also harming consumers. Honestly we need a complete overhaul and restart of ticket sales regulations and practices.
There seems to be some inclination in some posts that bot scalpers aren't a bad thing at all and that many benefit from super-inflated prices.
But..
When the tickets first come out they are offered at a certain price. The price point has been established already.
If the event beancounters wanted more money then why did they offer the ticket at it's price to start with?
To give the illusion that seats go for that price?
Or would it be a company like StubHub's way of making everything look legal and aboveboard?
But..
When the tickets first come out they are offered at a certain price. The price point has been established already.
If the event beancounters wanted more money then why did they offer the ticket at it's price to start with?
To give the illusion that seats go for that price?
Or would it be a company like StubHub's way of making everything look legal and aboveboard?
How about this:
Cardholders outside a 200 mile radius receive their tickets at "Will Call" after presenting the card they use.
I also think tickets should be at least partially refundable. Maybe the refund is full 2 weeks or more before the event, 75% a week out, and 50% day of? That way the venue isn't stuck trying to offload a glut of tickets returned for the last minute. Customers have incentive to return the tickets as soon as possible to get the most money back. And customers that couldn't find the seats they wanted originally have incentive to keep checking the website for better ones, with the ability to return their old ones for someone else without the hassle of reselling (let the venue/promoter/ticket agency deal with that since it's their full time job).
Or maybe to discourage scalpers, there's always a $20/10% (whichever is less) return fee. Not too much of a sting for consumers, but for scalpers buying in bulk, it means they need to have a higher margin on what they do sell to overcome the costs of whatever they have to return.
Or maybe to discourage scalpers, there's always a $20/10% (whichever is less) return fee. Not too much of a sting for consumers, but for scalpers buying in bulk, it means they need to have a higher margin on what they do sell to overcome the costs of whatever they have to return.
Who the scalpels/brokers or the promoters and artists who "look the other way"?
There is nothing stopping the artists or promoters from taking a little more risk, seems only right if they want more of the money the scalpels/brokers are collecting, or do I have it wrong?
Hence, the risk!
The profit on the select seats has to overcome the cost of all seats.
I'm not a fan of scalpers/brokers, but I have used their services.
I have heard the weak and empty arguments by the promoters.
I agree, the pie that consists of disposable income is only so big, but the price point was always subject to change when the nosebleed seats cost the same as the great seats.
The difference was that the wrong people figured it out first and the right people, the promoters and bands, thought the risk, wasn't worth the profit.
Again, look at the number of concerts that were cancelled 20 years ago, and look how few are cancelled now, and tell me why?
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As long as people are willing to buy tickets from scalpers at the prices the scalpers are charging, there will be scalpers and scalping.
It's very easy to bring emotion into it and blame the scalpers, give them derogatory names, say that things "should not be done", and try to get the politicians involved. After all, personal responsibility is a tough pill to swallow for many. But the fact remains: as long as there's a market, the practice will continue. This is true of any market.
It's very easy to bring emotion into it and blame the scalpers, give them derogatory names, say that things "should not be done", and try to get the politicians involved. After all, personal responsibility is a tough pill to swallow for many. But the fact remains: as long as there's a market, the practice will continue. This is true of any market.
There are two forces at work.
One - The house price as it relates to the band and venue needs for compensation, in order to hold the event.
Two - The market value of the tickets. If a ticket can be sold, then there is a customer out there who values the product and has the resources to pay the asking price.
The band and the house have essentially outsourced the market-rate adjustment to the scalpers. This isn’t a necessity product, like food or water. This is a discretionary, luxury item. If the people supplying the product feel they are fairly compensated, then they have no concern for those who can’t afford their product. If this makes you unhappy, then vote with your wallet and don’t consume their product. Clearly, someone is supporting live bands, since bands continue to tour.
One - The house price as it relates to the band and venue needs for compensation, in order to hold the event.
Two - The market value of the tickets. If a ticket can be sold, then there is a customer out there who values the product and has the resources to pay the asking price.
The band and the house have essentially outsourced the market-rate adjustment to the scalpers. This isn’t a necessity product, like food or water. This is a discretionary, luxury item. If the people supplying the product feel they are fairly compensated, then they have no concern for those who can’t afford their product. If this makes you unhappy, then vote with your wallet and don’t consume their product. Clearly, someone is supporting live bands, since bands continue to tour.
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Sure and no one buy drugs and no one dies.
Scalpersvarent the problem, remove staplers/brokers and watch the number of shows that now get cancelled for lack of sales.
What's become a huge problem, certainly in Ireland and UK is that companies like Ticketmaster own a bunch of secondary ticket-sales sites (barely legal scalpers, in my opinion) and the real fans have almost no hope of getting a good ticket as they've already been assigned to these sites to sell at crazy prices.
Or just watch the house/band/promoter bump the price. Someone will wet their beak.
Scalpers no. Ticket agencies Yes.
Prices and fees are ridiculous and you have to do all the work
and print them too.
Prices and fees are ridiculous and you have to do all the work
and print them too.
I’ve notice that a lot of the smaller venues in town are not using Ticketmaster anymore which makes it better for me as they don’t have the outrageous fees in which I can keep supporting said venues by getting more tickets at affordable prices.
Well...if a ticket goes for say $100 dollars originally and then the bot scalpers buy them all up and sell them for $400 dollars, then the only one that walks away laughing is the bot scalper.
