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Schroeder 1212L and Mini12+L Review

#21
matrok said:
First I want to say thanks to Ken(Kjung) and Steve(Burk) for coming out and the kind words.

Second I want to say, "I love this cab!" Right off I could really "feel" the bass as well as hear the notes. A couple more gigs with it to get a handle on EQing would be nice, but I was good to go with the settings I had previously used. I did dial in a bit more low for the second second set and when I used my 5 string it really sounded great.

It sure turned heads in my band. The singer, guitar player and drummer all commented on it during the set. And come load out time, I had each of them pick it up and they were further amazed. It's lighter than the singer's monitor.

I will be saving my sheckels and watching the ads for one of these now. Thanks again Ken.
Click to expand...

I gotta say I'm sorry for not making it out last night. The wife had plans and I'm not feeling too good as well.
ANYWAY!!! I work with Matt's drummer (Dave Jack) and just 5 min ago he commented on the guys bringing out that cab. He thought it sounded great.

So there you have it!

Is there any chance of bringing by my AccuGroove Tri-112 on Sat Steve??
 
#22
MikeBass said:
I gotta say I'm sorry for not making it out last night. The wife had plans and I'm not feeling too good as well.
ANYWAY!!! I work with Matt's drummer (Dave Jack) and just 5 min ago he commented on the guys bringing out that cab. He thought it sounded great.

So there you have it!

Is there any chance of bringing by my AccuGroove Tri-112 on Sat Steve??
Click to expand...

GREAT sounding drummer.. wonderful time and feel. I hope I get to play with him sometime.
 
#23
MikeBass said:
I work with Matt's drummer (Dave Jack) and just 5 min ago he commented on the guys bringing out that cab. He thought it sounded great.
Click to expand...

Now that's what I mean. When the drummer comments on your sound, you've got something going. Now Dave is not just a drummer, he plays some guitar and co-wrote a number of the band's originals, but you get the point. That's how I new I had something with my Reverends. Dave couldn't stop complimenting it every rehearsal, and my practice amp is a real piece of crap.

Mike, sorry you're not feeling well. Hope to see you soon. Take care.
 
#24
A quickie Burk update, more precise testing to follow!

Well I now have KJungs Schoeder 1212L until monday when I drop it off. I plugged in tonight with my eden WT550 hoping to get a little warmer sound then I heard Thur. night with ken. I initially plugged in my Metro w/stainless strings and it sounded pretty much like matt's rig Thursday. The volume was equal to my rig (In fairness to the Schoeder I'm running a 2 X10 and a 2 X 12 ) but both rigs are four ohms. But the low end response wasn't there, it was very punchy, but not very round. I boosted the low end on my eden and I got muffled wolf tones, so I backed off on the EQ from the amp and boosted the low end of my bass. It was a little more pleasing to he ear but still not solid.

Then I figured i would try a warmer bass, so I pulled out my NYC MV5 with nickel strings. I played it for about thirty seconds and thought to myself, man I didn't realize how dead these strings were. The sound was loud but almost muffled, no "edge" and certainly no bottom. Then I plugged back in to my two LDS cabinets. Amazingly my NYC sounded like it had a new set of strings. I had restored edge and a nice round low end. Now in fairness to the Schoeders, I'm comparing one small 2 X 12 to two cabinets of a competitors. But, to compliment Don and the boys at LDS the retails on the two cabinets of Dons are only about a third more then the one Schroeder.

In conclusion the Schoeder is a very loud small box, that has remarkable sound dispersion. But at this point I'm not convinced they are full enough sounding for my thing. I am going to try and give it a more thorough run tomorrow, but at this point I'm not sure EQ can solve the perceived lack of warmth from the Schroeder. I do want to make another point, I have heard nothing but good about Jorge, the cabinets are impeccably constructed and I have heard nothing but compliments on his customer service. I'm just not sure I'm his customer. Thats why they make both chocolate and vanilla I guess.
 
#25
burk48237 said:
A quickie Burk update, more precise testing to follow!

Well I now have KJungs Schoeder 1212L until monday when I drop it off. I plugged in tonight with my eden WT550 hoping to get a little warmer sound then I heard Thur. night with ken. I initially plugged in my Metro w/stainless strings and it sounded pretty much like matt's rig Thursday. The volume was equal to my rig (In fairness to the Schoeder I'm running a 2 X10 and a 2 X 12 ) but both rigs are four ohms. But the low end response wasn't there, it was very punchy, but not very round. I boosted the low end on my eden and I got muffled wolf tones, so I backed off on the EQ from the amp and boosted the low end of my bass. It was a little more pleasing to he ear but still not solid.

Then I figured i would try a warmer bass, so I pulled out my NYC MV5 with nickel strings. I played it for about thirty seconds and thought to myself, man I didn't realize how dead these strings were. The sound was loud but almost muffled, no "edge" and certainly no bottom. Then I plugged back in to my two LDS cabinets. Amazingly my NYC sounded like it had a new set of strings. I had restored edge and a nice round low end. Now in fairness to the Schoeders, I'm comparing one small 2 X 12 to two cabinets of a competitors. But, to compliment Don and the boys at LDS the retails on the two cabinets of Dons are only about a third more then the one Schroeder.

In conclusion the Schoeder is a very loud small box, that has remarkable sound dispersion. But at this point I'm not convinced they are full enough sounding for my thing. I am going to try and give it a more thorough run tomorrow, but at this point I'm not sure EQ can solve the perceived lack of warmth from the Schroeder. I do want to make another point, I have heard nothing but good about Jorge, the cabinets are impeccably constructed and I have heard nothing but compliments on his customer service. I'm just not sure I'm his customer. Thats why they make both chocolate and vanilla I guess.
Click to expand...

Intersting. I too, as you know Steve, am a BIG Eden and Sadowsky guy. The two are just kind of a match made in heaven. My ONLY squabble about Eden at all is I need a much lighter and modular setup. The heads are light enough but I need lighter cabs. Hopefully their NEO stuff will be out in January (fingers croosed for a 410XLT that weighs 50 or so lbs.)

I am going to be trying a 21012L and a 410L in about a month. It'll be interesting to see how they fair.

Looking forward to your finally tak eon the 1212L Steve.
 
#26
burk48237 said:
A quickie Burk update, more precise testing to follow!

Well I now have KJungs Schoeder 1212L until monday when I drop it off. I plugged in tonight with my eden WT550 hoping to get a little warmer sound then I heard Thur. night with ken. I initially plugged in my Metro w/stainless strings and it sounded pretty much like matt's rig Thursday. The volume was equal to my rig (In fairness to the Schoeder I'm running a 2 X10 and a 2 X 12 ) but both rigs are four ohms. But the low end response wasn't there, it was very punchy, but not very round. I boosted the low end on my eden and I got muffled wolf tones, so I backed off on the EQ from the amp and boosted the low end of my bass. It was a little more pleasing to he ear but still not solid.

Then I figured i would try a warmer bass, so I pulled out my NYC MV5 with nickel strings. I played it for about thirty seconds and thought to myself, man I didn't realize how dead these strings were. The sound was loud but almost muffled, no "edge" and certainly no bottom. Then I plugged back in to my two LDS cabinets. Amazingly my NYC sounded like it had a new set of strings. I had restored edge and a nice round low end. Now in fairness to the Schoeders, I'm comparing one small 2 X 12 to two cabinets of a competitors. But, to compliment Don and the boys at LDS the retails on the two cabinets of Dons are only about a third more then the one Schroeder.

In conclusion the Schoeder is a very loud small box, that has remarkable sound dispersion. But at this point I'm not convinced they are full enough sounding for my thing. I am going to try and give it a more thorough run tomorrow, but at this point I'm not sure EQ can solve the perceived lack of warmth from the Schroeder. I do want to make another point, I have heard nothing but good about Jorge, the cabinets are impeccably constructed and I have heard nothing but compliments on his customer service. I'm just not sure I'm his customer. Thats why they make both chocolate and vanilla I guess.
Click to expand...


Someone never called me to swing on by with the AG Tri112 to run with......:rollno:
 
#28
burk48237 said:
Someone played the Schoeder after he got home starting at 11:45. I though that would be past your bedtime!
Click to expand...

Ahh, true.
Thought you were gonna be home in the afternoon??

No biggie. You taking it back to Ken tomorrow??
 
#30
Well Dr. Burk set up the lab today and did the thorough test: First testing methods, I played two tunes on all three basses, "I want you back" and Sissy Strut" both with the CD's. I never changed the volume level on the Eden head during the test, if one was louder, I wanted that to be evident. The Eden WT 550 was run flat with enhance at about 25%. I ran every bass thru a Radial tone-bone, the two Sadowskys are run flat, I added a little low end and boost for my passive Jaco Sig. I both the Sadowskys I played Jeffery Osborns "Stay with me tonight" without CD to hear the slap tone. The rig I was comparing the Schoeder 1212L to was an LDS 210 neo and 212 neo, They are eight ohm cabs, so both rigs were four ohms. The LDS combined retail was about 1100 when purchased, the Schoeder retails for 850 (I believe). The room I played them in is a fairly dead room, it use to house a small recording set up and was a surprisingly even room when I pink noised it. It has plaster walls, Wood Floors and wood blinds.

1)The Jaco Sig. It didn't sound bad with the Schro, the G string actually sounded fatter, I attribute that to the increased mid range punch. Playing with the CD's it seemed to have slightly less bottom then the LDS's and a lot less high end (the tweeter control was at 50% on the scrho). This being a passive bass the schoeder added a little "extra" and I have a feeling even though the perceived volume was closer the Jaco would have cut thru in a band better with the Schoeder.

2) The Metro. (stainless rounds) The metro is my most hi-fi bass (if a Sadowsky J can be such a thing) and this was the bass the Schoeder liked a lot. I have a feeling It's probably also KJungs favorite of my instruments. Playing with the two tunes, I noticed increased definition in the B string and lower notes in general but less warmth. When Slapping with the Schoeder it was punchy but not quite as thumpy as the LDS cabs. It was almost like the schoeder flapped your pants legs more but the LDS cabs punched your butt. Both were cool, I liked the LDS cabs better with this bass but not by near as much as with the other basses. I can see why Ken likes his Celinders with his Schoeder.

3) The NYC. (bright nickles) This is my favorite bass, but alas it is the least compatible with the schoeders. I turned the tweeter dial up to 75% on the Schoeders for this test (the LDS remained at 50%) because of last nights experience. Played with the CD's the Schoeder cut but sounded a bit distant, the lower notes seemed much less warm, but their was a bit more definition down low. Slapped, my reaction to the Schoeders was "UGHU" it sounded like someone had thrown a blanket over the rig.

A few general observations:

The Schoeder didn't sound louder but I did have more ear fatigue using them. They are definitely projection monsters. They achieve their volume by being very hot in the low mid area, this accounts for huge perceived loudness. But then I've played 1400 seater's with my present rig and they usually tell me to TURN DOWN! I don't think their is a better cab in the world for hearing yourself then the Schoeder, their dispersion is incredible. I have to tilt my LDS 210 up in some rooms to hear myself on stage, no need with the schoeder. My conclusion, a GREAT LOUD SMALL BOX if you can live with the tone, I personally think they like stainless strings with more hi-fi basses better. But this schoeder is not my flavor.

THE LABORATORY:
DSC_0002-1.gif
 
#31
Cool reviews Steve. I really loved the tone Matt got out of the 1212L on that gig.... to my ear... that's everything a bass should sound like. I could hear every note, from the highest to the lowest. Quite amazing considering the rather loud volume of the band and the relatively low wattage going into that cab.

That being said, I too prefer some of the my other cabs when A/Bing them in a small room (basement) solo setting. But, for some reason, they really do sound great out front in a mix. When you combine that with the fact that they are smaller than most 210's, I'm still pretty jazzed by these things!

Edit: After reading your review again... I can't quite figure out what's going on with your tweeter settings. The tweeter on the schroe's is BRUTAL... I've never had it past 9 o'clock, since it gets massively sizzly beyond that. I can't believe you had that at 50% and it didn't sizzle your ears off. Hmmm... we will have to see if something is wrong on Monday.
 
#33
I talked to Ken tonight and he suggested that the Schoeder may have a fried tweeter. Because he finds them sizzled in the high end. That is a distinct possibility. Are the tweets protected on the Schoeders? Might just be a burned out light bulb?
 
#34
burk48237 said:
I talked to Ken tonight and he suggested that the Schoeder may have a fried tweeter. Because he finds them sizzled in the high end. That is a distinct possibility. Are the tweets protected on the Schoeders? Might just be a burned out light bulb?
Click to expand...


Maybe youplayed them too loud? :hiding:
 
#37
"A few general observations:
The Schoeder didn't sound louder but I did have more ear fatigue using them. "

This hardly seems fair...Perhaps you did this to compare "4 ohms to 4 ohms," but the amount of speaker cone area difference between the two setups is *a lot.*
 
#38
Chef said:
"A few general observations:
The Schoeder didn't sound louder but I did have more ear fatigue using them. "

This hardly seems fair...Perhaps you did this to compare "4 ohms to 4 ohms," but the amount of speaker cone area difference between the two setups is *a lot.*
Click to expand...

I agree and it was duly noted. I just felt that I needed both rigs to be four ohms to compare the loudness and I was VERY impressed by the loudness of the schroeder. Also I wanted to see if this little box could replace my bigger boxes. The ear fatigue I believe is a product of the focused frequency response of the Schroeders. At the same volumes as my LDS cabinets the Schoeder was definitely more fatiguing to listen too. I have also gigged with both of my LDS cabs separately and have not observed this phenomena at high volume. That is why I noted it.

One other quick note, I am not a "hi-fi" cabinet aficionado. I find that cabs with too wide of a frequency response often get lost in boomy rooms. It's not always a good thing IMHO for a cab to be flat from 20-18,000. Sometimes a little inherent mid-range bump and roll off of the low end is a good thing. I am a fan for instance of Eden XLT's. I just thought the Schoeder took it a little to the extreme for my ears.
 
#39
Postscript, Their is indeed something wrong with the tweeter in the 1212L. It seems to be putting out signal but very weak. Anyway Kens, going to send it back to Jorge. We tried it today at LDS and confirmed our suspicions. Also Don let us try a rebuilt Acoustic 360 cab with a row of 5" mid range drivers and a Bullet tweeter. It was a very cool update on a classic cab. And put out a ton of sound with an Eden 405. And we couldn't stand far enough away from it to really here it open up, I believe that would be about 120" feet from the cab! Anyway a really cool but NOT compact and lightweight take on an old classic.
 
#40
I played thru the little Schro as well.
It had some issues in the tweet dept. I suspect the L-Pad myself.
We'll see.
It still put out enough to remind you that it's a serious cab.

As for the big ol' review that Burk posted.
I didn't get the chance to really talk to Burk about it, but his A/B with his LDS cabs wasn't fair IMO.

A 210 & 212 vs. a 212? Thats where I fall off in the review.
Now, your 212 alone vs. the Schro , yeah. But toss a 210 in there and it becomes apples to Volkswagons IMO.
Also, to be fair, you would really need to step back from the Schroeder to let it open up a bit. In that 12x12 room of yours, your sitting on top of the cab. And your LDS rig, well, the 210 is smacking you in the face, and the 212 is kicking you in the knees.
The Schro is also kicking you in the knees.
See what I'm getting at here?!?!
If not, an SVT810 is 4 Ohms, lets compare that to either the Schroeder or your rig!!;)

In my little studio when I have my AGTri112 on top of the AGTri115, I can hear the 112 better.
When I A/B'd the two cabs with the 112 still on top of the 115, the 112 sounded a bit louder.
Put them on the floor and step back, pretty much the same volume IMO. Tone, well thats another thread.

Your rig as a point of reference for tone (that your accoustomed to) I can see. But with the limited gigging that your new rig has seen, and the only gigging with the Schro was done by someone else (you checked it out only at your place).

Also, unless the SPL of your whole rig was in the low 90's then yeah, your rig would pretty much do to the Schro what that big ass Acoustic cab did to...well..everything!!! (that thing was good sounding with the 5's and tweet BTW)

What I percieve as your "fatigue" may in fact what would be the turning point on the gig with the Schroeder.
I find that almost everytime a cab sounds less than ideal in a shop, it will mostly sound good on the gig.
Case in point, my AccuGroove Tri112. By itself, alone in the cold dark underpinnings of an all bass store. Being looked upon like an unwelcome Pagen dinner guest at a Barmitzfa.....oops!! Sorry!Invalid Link Removed
Anyway, sitting there by itself it didn't kill you with the typical gobs of low end, heavy dip @ 1K for a scooped tone. Say like an Epifani or the like. It was very responsive and projected a lot of over-all even-ness across the frequency range. Great, but not "Oh My God, Instant Marcus" type of tone.
And thus far, it sounds stinkin great with a band.
But this is about the Schroeder.

My experience with them has been stellar on the gig. Not a thing that would fatigue you at all.
Burk, when Matt was playing it, did you get that feeling??

I'm sorry Steve, I don't mean to sound like a jerk. But as you noticed, I was a bit short on words today at LDS and wanted to run some of these things by you.
 

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