Second bass build - Effortless playability

Okay, so the first bass build can be viewed here. This was more just trying to get an understanding of the fundamentals. Although, I did add some cool touches to it with the laser-etched top and the piezo bridge pickup

Now, just to give you some background, I'm an industrial designer by trade. I've worked on designing all sorts of products ranging from faucets to sunglasses to headphones to furniture. My basic job function is to make stuff that fulfills a user's needs, looks cool, and is cost-effective to manufacture.

This thread will outline the process of a prototype bass design that I intend to work on. Back in the 1950s, almost all of the decisions made around Fender's first bass guitar were centered around reducing cost. There is nothing wrong with this. There's no point in making something that is too expensive for anyone to afford. But it was done at the expense of user comfort.

My goal is to improve ergonomics for the electric bass using improved body shapes and neck profiles. My target "customers" are serious bass players who practice a lot. Music students specifically. People who practice for 2-3+ hours per day. I'm not talking noodling, either. I mean disciplined practice with the express intent of improving on the instrument. These players need an instrument that does not lead to RSI (repetitive stress injury) so the thing just needs to fit like a glove. Another submarket that I intend to target is 45+-year-old players who have health issues and are struggling to play their current instrument...people with carpal tunnel, back problems, etc. etc. If they don't find an instrument that caters to their ergonomic needs, they face the possibility of never playing again.

Please note, I don't think I'll actually mass produce or sell this product, but it's useful for me to have an idea of these parameters. They will greatly inform the design....otherwise the design decisions will be made too subjectively.

I am fully aware that there are a few luthiers who have designed instruments in this particular segment. But I still hope to bring my own perspective to the table. Even if it's a mild improvement, I'll be happy.

So to start, let's analyze the problems. I know this stuff is probably really obvious to you more experienced luthiers, but it's important for me to lay out the problems so that my decisions for building are well-informed.

1. left and right hand bending=carpal tunnel. One problem is that basses need to sit at a 45 degree angle relative to the floor in order to make sure that both wrists are in a neutral position. If they sit parallel to the floor, you get some very awkward bending due to strap height. Even still, some body shapes and neck profiles are not very easy to work with ergonomically.


2. Poor posture in general. This is largely due to bass players having to look at the fret board while playing. When you have poor posture, the muscles in your neck and your shoulder cramp up. That tightness eventually makes its way down to your wrists, which leads to issues with playing the instrument.


3. Here's an example of "proper" technique. But even still, notice how out of the way this guy has to go to get his bass in a good position. His legs are splayed out, one leg is much higher than the other, and there's no way for him to see what he's playing in this position:


Now that I've outlined the problem, I'll start to post some preliminary solutions.
I'd love your feedback and input on this.

 

So I've built about a dozen or so prototypes so far.


Right now, the one directly in the middle is probably the closest I've gotten to a comfortable body.

Below is a picture of the body. Notice how I can lay my feet flat on the floor. I don't really have to bend either wrist awkwardly. The bass naturally wants to sit at a 45 degree angle, allowing for a more neutral wrist position. With some body contouring, this thing will be very comfortable:


Next is the neck. I decided to go with a neck that starts out as an offset V-neck towards the lower frets. By doing this, it allows for a more comfortable pinch grip I KNOW THAT I WILL GET A LOT OF RESISTANCE ON THIS, but I feel that this design is much more ergonomic. The main gripe that people have with a pinch grip from a technique standpoint is that it limits your ability to play fast passages. It also hurts with your ability to apply pressure while fretting. But this neck is flat and slim in the right areas, which makes it way easier to play with a pinch grip on the lower register of the neck. The higher register of the neck gradually becomes more like a "normal" neck and gets rounded off:



PS aren't my pants cool?

 

In what way do you think it would be uncomfortable? If you have a bass near you can you try it and tell me what you think?

Also, I think it's important to mention that this bass will still work when played on the right leg. It's still more comfortable than other basses because the instrument is contoured a little better (basically they're just deeper contours and they're placed in a way that makes more sense---plus the body shape doesn't get in the way of your right hand as much). It's just that you won't utilize all the benefits of a perfectly straight back as easily. Your body has to twist a little bit when you play the bass on your right leg. If you play casually this really isn't a big deal. But if you sit in this position for 3 hours, you may feel discomfort.

 

Ok this is exactly the kind of feedback I'm looking for from you guys. Thank you!

So I've tried this before, but I really wanted to make sure that I didn't over look it. I took my Precision bass and rested it on my left leg. When sitting parallel to the floor, it is indeed extremely awkward to reach the first fret. Not only is it a long reach, it also forces your shoulder in a weird position too.

When I place the bass at a 45 degree angle on my left leg, as you mentioned, it helps. But it's harder to see the frets. I also find myself having to lift my left leg (basically have my left foot on my tippy toes) in order to get an angle that's comfortable.

My design is actually pretty usable on the left leg. The way that it sits automatically puts it at a 45 degree angle so the reach for the first fret is way better. The first fret is also a little bit closer to you just by the way the body's designed when compared to the P Bass. The neck helps with reaching that first fret, as well.

But there is still the problem of actually being able to see what you're doing. Do you think having a visual marker on the side or back of the neck would help? In the same way there are lines on some fretless necks, maybe there could be lines on the back of the neck? Or maybe a tactile indicator? A very slight change in the finish (from satin to matte) on the back of the neck for the odd frets (1st, 3rd, 5th frets) could leave enough of a feeling on your hands as you pass through the neck? Just spitballing here.

Also, I really don't think that your feeling of being "unbalanced" and "naked" on one side like that is stupid at all. Music is all about feel, so if you feel weird, how are you supposed to play?

So it seems like I should probably focus a little bit more on right leg, non-classical sitting position. Like I said, this bass is still more comfortable to play with it on your right leg when compared to standard basses (musicman stingray and P bass), but only marginally so. I'll get back to you guys in a couple days.

 

Hey hdfixer, I have checked out his work, but haven't spent much time looking into the details of his neck profiles. I have seen his bass that he did with the trapezoidal neck. I tried that profile and thought it was kind of weird. The guy really knows his stuff though.

I have seen this. Very inspiring stuff. I honestly can't even wrap my head around how that works. I kind of want to stay away from things that require time-consuming and advanced woodworking if I can. I really do appreciate the work that Jerome Little (inventor of the Torzal neck) has done. It shows incredible craftsmanship that quite frankly is beyond my skill, so I'm not even going to attempt to build a twisted neck.

 

Hey @40Hz , you are absolutely right. And I agree with you. I feel that a lot of the ergonomic bass designs look very odd and I wouldn't buy them purely on that basis. I don't care how comfortable it is if it looks weird. I do not think that is an unreasonable opinion to hold when you consider the fact that most of these musicians will be performing on stage in front of an audience with their instrument. If you feel weird holding a weird looking instrument, it is hard to play to the best of your ability.

@whitebirch this is great feedback. So quick question; are you saying you would actually move the upper horn closer to the bridge for more stability? Sorry if I'm misunderstanding. If you want to go in photoshop and show me what you mean that would be cool. Or literally just draw some lines in MS paint or something over an existing P bass picture. You don't have to, of course. But if you want to you, I would find it very helpful.

Also, I've added an area that slopes downward (slopes downward, toward the body while holding the bass) in a bit more of an extreme way

For the higher friction contact points, I'm assuming you want these so that the instrument stays in place? It's funny you mention that, when I play in classical position with my P bass I always feel like the thing is going to slip out of my hands all the time. It could be as simple as having a matte finish for the sides and back of the instrument.

@DavetheDude yes I have seen those before. Strandberg has done some pretty amazing things with ergonomics. It is not my intent to copy his designs. Because he has already done a lot of this research, we will probably come to similar conclusions in certain areas, as you have already seen. I want to expand on his ideas and make them my own, though.

@mark5009 very cool! I wonder how he got the instrument to balance with such a lightweight body?? It looks like he put the strap pins in very specific spots...maybe that's how? Have you ever played one?

@John Trials really interesting stuff. I read this last night and was thinking about this for a while. Do you know of a particular expanding foam that would work for this application? It would of course be best if it didn't stick to the garbage bag too much.

 

@pellomoco14 Wow very interesting. Did you run into any troubles with neck stability with such an asymmetrical design? That has been my primary concern. Also, I'm surprised you were able to re-profile the neck without running into the truss rod. Were there other stiffening rods in the neck as well? I'm assuming no.

 

So I made these sketches before I got all of this great feedback from you guys. To @whitebirch's point, no one's going to want to play this thing if it looks weird. So one of my big tasks has been making it look cool. These sketches are not nearly as relevant anymore now that I will change the design to be more usable in 'standard' sitting position (bass placed on right leg). But I figured I'd post 'em up anyway.