Second opinion on speaker replacement

[Blank_0101]

I got an old narrow bodied peavey 2x15 for free, and it needs new speakers.

I went to a pretty well known guy in my town and across the nation in forums for repair and speaker know how.

Anyways when I told him I was looking into getting a pair neo 2x12's and used a low B he told me it was a horrible idea.

He then told me he had a number of speakers that would work in my 2x15 and make it great.

My only worry is I'm a student without much money, and though it's an attractive idea, he never saw my cab, or asked questions, and when I tried to describe it he kind of ignored me, and when I asked to bring it in before buying anything he acted like it was a waste of time but he'd humor me.

I don't want to buy $300 worth of speaker for a cab worth like $50 to find out he just wanted to sell his speakers to me and make me an overpriced fart box.

What do you think? Should I listen to the guy or find something else.

 

[BassikLee]

Without him knowing the internal volume, and any port information about your cabinet, it smells to me like he is trying to get rid of some old drivers. Might work great. Might be the perfect fart box. I'd look elsewhere.

 

[bobcruz]

It's possible the dude already knew the internal volume and tuning of your Peavey cab from prior experience, so it's also possible his speaker recommendation isn't completely bogus, but after that statement about the neo 2x12s, he lost all credibility. There's nothing "horrible" about using a pair of neo 2x12s with a 5-string.

 

[Blank_0101]

It's possible the dude already knew the internal volume and tuning of your Peavey cab from prior experience, so it's also possible his speaker recommendation isn't completely bogus, but after that statement about the neo 2x12s, he lost all credibility. There's nothing "horrible" about using a pair of neo 2x12s with a 5-string.

That's what worried me because they seemed like good cabs granted even at $399, that's huge $$$ for me.

I like to think this guy as "famous" as he is has seen everything in the book and just knows.

What really scared me was I called him to ask about my speakers being dead and he said he'd test them for free. When I got there he poked the one I said was crapped out and when I asked what was wrong with it, he whipped out a knife and sliced the cone up to show me the guts without warning or asking

He seemed to be a typical kind of grouchy tech guy, who's tired of people asking the same questions (which turns me off, because I want to learn). Or he saw me and my stupid 2x15 and figures I'm a putz already.

If anyone's used a peavey 2x15 and knows anything let me know, otherwise I guess I'll haul the cab over and interrogate him til I get a good answer.

 

[Floyd Eye]

Reload it with some Black Widows, like the ones that came in it. I have one of these cabs and they are nice old cabs with the stock speakers in them.

 

[craig.p]

Pop the grill and take a pic from the front so we know which cab it is.

With a 5-string you're going to have to be extra careful not to send too much bass to that cab (or any other ported cab for that matter), since your average "pedestrian" ported cab offers no driver support down there.

The guy you spoke to is erring on the side of caution and can't be faulted for that. He's simply aware of the problem I stated above, and is trying to save you some headaches.

Nothing wrong with knifing the cones if your voice coil was blown. It'd be Step One of a recone job anyway.

 

[Blank_0101]

Reload it with some Black Widows, like the ones that came in it. I have one of these cabs and they are nice old cabs with the stock speakers in them.

They weren't black widows, and he said black widows were poor speakers anyways. It was these speakers

As for the cab itself, here is the gut shot, but I am worried cause this was going to be my big bassy cab, I have another peavey 1x15 combo I stripped into a cab I will be using with a peavey windsor for my hi mids and fuzz.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

Reload it with some Black Widows, like the ones that came in it. I have one of these cabs and they are nice old cabs with the stock speakers in them.

+ 1

Great advice IMO. Since Peavey made the black widows, you have very little guesswork on compatibility with the cab and know it will sound better than your current configuration. I love 2x15's, I think you'll be satisfied with yours if you get the black widows in there.

IMO on the Tech, a few things he said/did alarmed me. The 2x12s comment is rather short-sighted and sounds like he might be a bit far from accepting high-efficiency cabs as viable, or he might just not know about how the physics of sound in a bass cab truly work. That and the knife thing seems rather unprofessional and apathetic about your gear and business in general. If that's the kind of pride he puts into his work, I'd look elsewhere...word of mouth isn't gospel in many cases

 

[KevInDaBassment]

They weren't black widows, and he said black widows were poor speakers anyways. It was these speakers

Compared to what? I'll admit, I have Eminence legend 15's in my Kasino 2x15, but I hear great things about the Peavey black widows from guys on here. Tone can be subjective, did he elaborate on something that was of any substance (i.e. - doesn't reproduce mids well, low-end farts out easy, low SPL or poor dispersion)? I'm sorry but this guy sounds kind of...aloof. Is he a bass player or a guitarist? Guitard techs can get by if they know a good chunk about tube amps, but when it comes to cabs and basses themselves, they can be kind of clueless IME.

 

[Blank_0101]

I love 2x15's,

IMO on the Tech, a few things he said/did alarmed me. The 2x12s comment is rather short-sighted and sounds like he might be a bit far from accepting high-efficiency cabs as viable, or he might just not know about how the physics of sound in a bass cab truly work. That and the knife thing seems rather unprofessional and apathetic about your gear and business in general. If that's the kind of pride he puts into his work, I'd look elsewhere...word of mouth isn't gospel in many cases

I want to love a 2x15. I'm trying my damndest to learn the science and fact behind everything I use, since music gear isn't running on mojo and opinion like most believe.

Yea, the whole dismissing of the cabs made me confused, he said Neo speakers just can't compete with the original I guess ceramix and AlNiCo stuff, and it's a fad, except the kappalites he says they are great (and would work wonderfully in my 2x15 without seeing it).

The knife incident did irk me, I know it's a broken speaker and I was intrigued by seeing the damage first hand, but the fact he did anything to it beyond like prodding without asking kind of pissed me off. Not that I was going to try and sell it as a working speaker, but it was whole and could have been hung on a wall at a TGI Fridays or something :scowl:

 

[Blank_0101]

I'm sorry but this guy sounds kind of...aloof.

He never explained anything really in any detail, and did have a massive air of aloofness. He was never smug or a downright ass to me (although the phone rang twice and each time he answered it like "OMG I'm busy GOSH!" then hung up like napoleon dynamite). He just reminds me of anyone who does tech work, they act like they are doing you a favor, but the fact they are making money makes me listen with a grain of salt, and the worse they behave the less likely I am to give them money, but they are so "aloof" as you put it, they are better than your money and in my opinion lose money.

I hang out in the stoner/doom section some and those guys have had a few big rip offs lately from custom gear. I know my cab is far from custom, but I really get nervous with "smart" guys who are self employed. A GC employee will say BS and it sounds like BS, he knows his stuff and can jargon me out the door to make a sale and rent, or be on to something.

I feel bad mentioned the stores name now, or guy, but it's pretty simple named store in Austin. But to my knowledge he does speaker repair of ALL kinds from little boom boxes to 4x12's and I think he specializes in modifiying vintage 30's or green backs or something.

 

[craig.p]

I am very familiar with that cab and its construction.

What is your budget, and what impedance do you want the cab to be?

You can install a pair of Eminence Legend CA154 (4 ohm) drivers, wired in series for 8 ohms, and have yourself a nice cab for $200 that will handle 200 watts all the way down to low B. That configuration is -3 dB at 60 Hz, -12 dB at 32 Hz. Not the best 5-string cab, that's for sure, but not too bad, either, considering the small cab volume. You could do better (and a lot worse, too) for more money, but you said you're on a budget. I believe this is a reasonable compromise between performance and cost.

Hope this helps.

 

[walterw]

an 8Ω, 200w 2x15 cab wouldn't be worth the effort of dragging it out of the garage!

surely there's gotta be a decent 300-400w 8Ω speaker (so two would make for a 4Ω cab) that would play nice in that box and wouldn't break the bank! eminence delta or kappa, maybe?

i have a pair of kappa 15s that just crush, but they're in two little 1x15 boxes that LDS don made specifically for them, so the box tuning is right.

 

[T-Bird]

Hi.

My humble suggestion, download WinISD and start experimenting with various drivers, including 12" 's.

Come up with potential candidates and ask some detailed questios.



The comment about 12" 's is the only part of the said techs "faults" as far as I can see. Others were pretty normal answers and behaviour.

He never explained anything really in any detail, and did have a massive air of aloofness. He was never smug or a downright ass to me (although the phone rang twice and each time he answered it like "OMG I'm busy GOSH!" then hung up like napoleon dynamite). He just reminds me of anyone who does tech work, they act like they are doing you a favor, but the fact they are making money makes me listen with a grain of salt, and the worse they behave the less likely I am to give them money, but they are so "aloof" as you put it, they are better than your money and in my opinion lose money.

Nope, when he/she is talking to a customer, whether over the phone or over the counter, 9 times out of ten, the tech is losing money. And daylight.

Some are able and/or willing to do that, but that's a luxury only a few can afford nowadays. If and as, one has a deadline to catch, the amount of time spent shooting the breeze just postpones the time they can hit the sack. Please do keep that in mind.

As for not explaining the problem, not everyone can behave like BFM for example, who week after week, month after month, year after year, somewhat patiently explained all things associated with speaker science and practical applications, to seemingly deaf ears. I have heard he's on hiatus from this site (sadly), but You'll probably catch him on his own website if you wish.

The days of old that even I didn't catch, when the god techs were sociable creatures with time to chit-chat are long gone and will never come back. Sadly, if You ask me.

Regards
Sam

 

[JimmyM]

an 8Ω, 200w 2x15 cab wouldn't be worth the effort of dragging it out of the garage!

surely there's gotta be a decent 300-400w 8Ω speaker (so two would make for a 4Ω cab) that would play nice in that box and wouldn't break the bank! eminence delta or kappa, maybe?

Deltas for sure, also Betas.

 

[Blank_0101]

an 8Ω, 200w 2x15 cab wouldn't be worth the effort of dragging it out of the garage!

You're damn right! I want to be able to run between 300-600 watts. I am looking at a Kustom head, or an Orange bass terror.
As mentioned this will be my bassy amp, I'm also gonna use tube amp in stereo. So I need good speakers, but appropriate to my

I am going to just go with him, for now it just seems like a way to get something done and learn something.

I understand he's busy, but I'd pay him to talk slower and to me and not at me about the process, spec etc and make me feel as solid and aware of my cab scientifically as he is.

Thanks everybody, I'll reawaken this thread if I find anything new, I really appreciate your input.

 

[craig.p]

My point was that the cab would handle 200 watts all the way down to low B. In this type of analysis you have to factor in where and when the instrument is going to cause Xmax to be hit. This is the sort of spec (and the sort of awareness of the dangers inherent in 5-string BG reproduction) you rarely see or could even dream of obtaining from any mainstream manufacturer, which is why I went through this analysis for the OP in the first place. If the bass were a 4-string, you could safely hit the cab with 380 watts before you hit Xmax. If the amp that's going to drive this cab is incapable of 200 watts at 8 ohms, then there are other driver options that would work well. But that power level is easily achievable with many of today's mainstream amps. Even a beat-up CL special Backline will supply 180 and get the job done just fine. Or a low end BX250.

Hope this clarifies things and silences the (rather rude imo) doubters.

 

[1958Bassman]

+ 1

Great advice IMO. Since Peavey made the black widows, you have very little guesswork on compatibility with the cab and know it will sound better than your current configuration. I love 2x15's, I think you'll be satisfied with yours if you get the black widows in there.

IMO on the Tech, a few things he said/did alarmed me. The 2x12s comment is rather short-sighted and sounds like he might be a bit far from accepting high-efficiency cabs as viable, or he might just not know about how the physics of sound in a bass cab truly work. That and the knife thing seems rather unprofessional and apathetic about your gear and business in general. If that's the kind of pride he puts into his work, I'd look elsewhere...word of mouth isn't gospel in many cases

The original speakers are Eminence, not Black Widow and that means there's no reason to think the cabinet was designed for, or will work with, Black Widows.

 

[Stumbo]

My point was that the cab would handle 200 watts all the way down to low B. In this type of analysis you have to factor in where and when the instrument is going to cause Xmax to be hit. This is the sort of spec (and the sort of awareness of the dangers inherent in 5-string BG reproduction) you rarely see or could even dream of obtaining from any mainstream manufacturer, which is why I went through this analysis for the OP in the first place. If the bass were a 4-string, you could safely hit the cab with 380 watts before you hit Xmax. If the amp that's going to drive this cab is incapable of 200 watts at 8 ohms, then there are other driver options that would work well. But that power level is easily achievable with many of today's mainstream amps. Even a beat-up CL special Backline will supply 180 and get the job done just fine. Or a low end BX250.

Hope this clarifies things and silences the (rather rude imo) doubters.

Thanks for posting.

 

[1958Bassman]

The knife incident did irk me, I know it's a broken speaker and I was intrigued by seeing the damage first hand, but the fact he did anything to it beyond like prodding without asking kind of pissed me off. Not that I was going to try and sell it as a working speaker, but it was whole and could have been hung on a wall at a TGI Fridays or something :scowl:

Cutting the cone out is the standard way to verify the damage on a speaker, but he really should have told you that he was going to do it. Since it was dead, it's not much of a problem WRT its value.

What did he see- did he explain it? Did the voice coil look like it had stripes going around it? Did it look like it was scraped? Was it noticeably dark brown? These are all indications of what caused the failure.

Why not look into having them reconed? They lasted this long and they're not bad drivers. I don't think Peavey would have used them if they were crap, right? Might not be exactly what you want, but they could be decent trade bait if they were reconed. If you want Eminence or Black Widow, look at Parts Express.