Self Taught: Yea or Nay

[Xjenrbcjsmsbfjw]

There are amazing players who are self taught, and there are awful ones. There are amazing players who are classically trained and there are awful ones. This is NOT the way to judge a musician! But before hearing a player, if you hear the words "self taught," in that instinctual gut-check part of yourself, do your expectations go up or down.

Definitely explain your choice if you want, but lets avoid the lists of names if at all possible. I doubt there is a player alive who would say "all self taught players are good/bad" or "all trained players are good/bad." The examples either way sort of prove jack, and I'm wondering what your gut tells you.

 

[LBS-bass]

Self taught works brilliantly if you have an inherent musical gift. Everyone else needs more traditional teaching. However, even the most brilliant self-taught players will benefit from some study of music fundamentals and basic theory and notation, even if it's study they do on their own.

 

[Xjenrbcjsmsbfjw]

Self taught works brilliantly if you have an inherent musical gift. Everyone else needs more traditional teaching. However, even the most brilliant self-taught players will benefit from some study of music fundamentals and basic theory and notation, even if it's study they do on their own.

All true, but I think we all know that. This is a poll of what your gut says. If you just hear the words self taught, do you expect the player to be better of worse?

 

[Oddly]

My gut answer is my expectation would go up.
As a general rule, someone self-taught has to work harder at stuff, therefore wants it more, and so is more passionate.
I'll take passion over technical ability any day.

 

[Xjenrbcjsmsbfjw]

My gut answer is my expectation would go up.
As a general rule, someone self-taught has to work harder at stuff, therefore wants it more, and so is more passionate.
I'll take passion over technical ability any day.

THANK YOU! haha, I knew this was one of those topics people would want to dissect, when what I was after was that visceral first second reaction, not "what do you think of self teaching as a system overall."

 

[Xjenrbcjsmsbfjw]

I would argue that the best self-taught players (such as for example Paul McCartney or Jimi Hendrix) were not strictly "self taught" but rather practiced a crude form of "distance learning" by studying famous recordings. McCartney for example devoured his father's entire library of big band records and used that knowledge to become an harmonically sophisticated songwriter. Furthermore these types of musicians are relentlessly curious, always listening and asking questions, so that every musician they interact with becomes their "teacher."

The number of successful musicians who are actually completely "self taught," in the sense they locked themselves alone in a room and invented their own unique musical language, is probably a tiny number.

All likely true, but not what I'm after. What does your gut say when it hears the words "self taught?"

 

[LBS-bass]

All true, but I think we all know that. This is a poll of what your gut says. If you just hear the words self taught, do you expect the player to be better of worse?

It's really hard to answer that. I'm self-taught but I come from a musical family. I've known other self-taught players who were absolutely brilliant, but I have known many, many musicians with all sorts of backgrounds who were unable to rise above mediocrity. So I just don't categorize in those ways. I need to hear what they do; self taught or Master's level degreed don't really make the difference because I've known good and bad players in both camps.

 

[ak56]

... If you just hear the words self taught, do you expect the player to be better of worse?

No.

 

[ctmullins]

Depends.

Are you talking about the method of learning musical concepts?

Or do you mean the method of learning the mechanics of playing an instrument?

For instance, I’m a self-taught bassist, but a classically trained musician.

Regardless, my expectations don’t go up either way, and they don’t go down either way. They change, but it’s a lateral change.

I couldn’t vote, since there is no option for this perspective.

 

[Xjenrbcjsmsbfjw]

My gut reaction is "they'd be even better with lessons."

WOOT! Someone else willing to answer the question!

 

[LBS-bass]

If the point you're trying to get to is finding out whether I'm willing to pass on Pino Palladino or Danny Elfman, the answer is no.

 

[Xjenrbcjsmsbfjw]

If the point you're trying to get to is finding out whether I'm willing to pass on Pino Palladino or Danny Elfman, the answer is no.

No, I wasn't asking anything even sort of like that. In fact there was no "point," I was asking what your gut says at the words self taught. Obviously logically it's not a distinction that matters once you hear the musician, which is why I was avoiding the lists of names. Pino Palladino and Danny Elfman aren't related at all to what I was asking, unless they inform that .1 second instinctual feeling you get when you hear the phrase. Just like the gut feeling humans get with every phrase. We process faster than we think.

 

[Xjenrbcjsmsbfjw]

Depends.

Are you talking about the method of learning musical concepts?

Or do you mean the method of learning the mechanics of playing an instrument?

For instance, I’m a self-taught bassist, but a classically trained musician.

Regardless, my expectations don’t go up either way, and they don’t go down either way. They change, but it’s a lateral change.

I couldn’t vote, since there is no option for this perspective.

I'm asking for that tenth of a second instinctual response, not anyone's actual thoughts on it. By the time you've had time to have any of those thoughts you're past the part I'm asking about.

 

[LBS-bass]

No, I wasn't asking anything even sort of like that. In fact there was no "point," I was asking what your gut says at the words self taught. Obviously logically it's not a distinction that matters once you hear the musician, which is why I was avoiding the lists of names. Pino Palladino and Danny Elfman aren't related at all to what I was asking, unless they inform that .1 second instinctual feeling you get when you hear the phrase. Just like the gut feeling humans get with every phrase. We process faster than we think.

OK, I didn't vote then, because I don't get a gut reaction based on that. The only gut reaction I ever get (which is lame, but I'm being honest) is that when someone tells me they play music, regardless of what else they might say about their background, I assume they probably don't play very well. This just comes from too many years working in a music store and being around lots of people who play poorly, and a few too many auditions and open mic nights. The good players are always a pleasant surprise.

 

[Wanker_Joe]

Personally it makes no difference to me with respect to my expectations or whatever. I care for what they can deliver when I'm listening to them. How they got there is completely irrelevant to me.

 

[Dynomuttasaurus]

When I hear someone describe themselves as self-taught, I think they 1) have a chip on their shoulder otherwise why even make the distinction and, 2) might be good, but probably a one-trick-pony. Self-taught sometimes get too stuck on one style, technique, etc. because they are not intentionally broadening their horizons.

That said, next to no one is self-taught -- especially in today's day and age with the Internet.

The question may be what is considered classically trained. Can they take lessons from Scott online and be "trained?" How many years of 30-minute lessons once a week at the local music store are required to count as "traditionally trained?" Does one need to major in a degree program to be "classically trained?"

 

[Bunk McNulty]

I'm answering the question: My gut says nothing to me one way or the other when I hear "self-taught." If you can make good music, how you got there doesn't mean a thing to me.

 

[Wissen]

It depends entirely on what our roles will be in the project. I am not self-taught, but all of my bandmates are. This sometimes makes communication difficult. I have written an instrumental tune for our band, and I have been banging my head against the wall trying to find a way to effectively communicate it to them since I can't just hand. them. the. sheet. music.

I've worked with both. And will continue to do so. I consider them equal, so the decision comes down to other factors.

 

[ctmullins]

I'm asking for that tenth of a second instinctual response, not anyone's actual thoughts on it. By the time you've had time to have any of those thoughts you're past the part I'm asking about.

Gotcha. Pre-cognitive perception is a fascinating thing.

But I still can’t vote, because my pre-cognitive reaction is just “different”.

 

[groooooove]

means about as much to me as knowing how tall they are.