Double Bass Series 4 from Acoustic Image

[shwashwa]

hey Brian,
doubt you remember me but you tried to recruit me for SAI one summer, but i was more interested in hanging out at the beach at that time! many moons ago for sure. (i didnt play upright yet either) click the link in my sig to hear what im up to these days. just got back from texas playing a gig with vic and recorded with him over the summer...

 

[bribass]

Sure I remember you, Steve. We've also chatted here on TB.
...you mean Juris? He's a BAD BOY.
Your My Blues sounds great!

How's Chico's club down there? Haven't gigged there yet.

Boy, the Amp Forum is a NJ DBer hang today.

..Oh, yeah, sorry Chris.
Thread Topic;
New AI amps- Series III Rules!

 

[shwashwa]

chico's is ok i guess. they insist on putting the bass through the house and the drumkit through the house. kick drum and all. totally not necessary for that room. last time i played there, with my AI ten2, during the second set we sabatoged the sound system so it wouldnt work. (nothing bad, just unplugged a few things) thats when the music started happening! Vic refuses to play there again because of that sound guy. they even had stage monitors blasting the sound of the bass and drums right back at me into my bass pickup. chico has a long history of jazz clubs going out of business in asbury, and i've played at all of them! but that's a different story...
thanks for the compliment on my tune!

 

[Steve Freides]

And, FWIW, Series 4 amps are starting to roll. We just got a shipment of a selection of the first ones today, and I'll be doing some comparo-tests tomorrow (I have a screaming headache today, compliments of a head cold) with the Series III amps to see what the differences in wattage and speakers really mean.

Any news about A/B-ing Series III and Series IV gear, particularly the Ten2?

TIA.

-S-

 

[Mark Gollihur]

We don't have any Series III Ten2's left, the S4 Ten2's didn't arrive until we were sold out of the SIII.

But we've A-B'd the Coda+ with the S4 Coda, and to my ears the new version sounds a bit more "open" - probably an effect of better efficiency in the new woofer. It still has the bottom, but it's a little clearer sounding, not as "woolly." At least, in my limited testing. Overall volume levels are pretty neck and neck; that "extra" 200w is just for headroom, and the amp still has plenty.

Related: The new amp also does perform down to a 2-ohm load, we did get that word from Rick at AI the other day. Also, he told us that the testing on the new amp module actually shows that it puts out closer to 650w; the 600w is a more conservative number used for marketing purposes.

 

[Jeffrey Wash]

I've been using an AI New Yorker for several years now, mostly for URB but also for quieter electric gigs. For the most part I really have enjoyed using the amp, however I've never liked the EQ section, never found it particularly useful for either the URB or the electric. Question: was the New Yorker designed more as an amp for Electric Guitar? I ask because I understand it's fairly popular among jazz guitarists and also because then that would make more sense to me insofar as understanding the way the EQ is designed on this amp.

The New Yorker EQ points, according to the manual, are Bass 60hz, Mid 650hz, Treble 10khz and a Brite (sic) at 9Khz. For EB or URB, the 60hz bass knob can be useful for cutting woofiness but it's nowhere near as useful as having a dedicated hi pass filter (which I understand other AI models have). And 60hz is definitely NOT a freq I'll usually boost as it's right down in the range of most kick drums, would only muddy things up.

650 is almost a useful mid frequency for bass, but really more of a tease: 'close but no cigar'. The High and the Brite knobs are OK I suppose if one is wanting more "air". In the studio I might be inclined to enhance that frequency range for a bit of 'icing', depending on the context of the music, how much cymbal activity there is, etc... but to only be able to boost or cut that frequency range (9 to 10khz) in live performance? Definitely a handicap.

But I can see how those freqs, at least the mid and the treble, might be more useful for guitar. Hence my original question.

I haven't been able to find the EQ specs on the other AI amps. Can anyone tell me if the EQ center frequencies are different for the other AI amps? I've tried going to the Ai website for this info, can't seem to find it...

 

[Mark Gollihur]

I haven't been able to find the EQ specs on the other AI amps. Can anyone tell me if the EQ center frequencies are different for the other AI amps? I've tried going to the Ai website for this info, can't seem to find it...

Acoustic Image

The New Yorker was introduced in 2003, and was simply a smaller, lighter, less full-featured version of the combos of the time, using the smaller "Clarus SL" head and designed simply to be more transportable for city-roving players (hence the name). It became extinct when the newer generation of the regular combos came out and they were lighter and smaller than the New Yorker had been.

The later model amps have the following tone specs, according to the manual:

The bass control is a shelving-type that affects frequencies below 250 Hz and
with a maximum boost/cut of 15 dB.   The mid control affects frequencies
between 300 Hz and 2000 Hz and has a maximum boost/cut of 15 dB.  The
treble control is also a shelving-type that affects frequencies above 1000 Hz
with a maximum boost/cut of 25 dB.

Bass Control: Shelving type, ±15 dB at 60 Hz
Mid Control: ±15 dB at 650 Hz
Treble Control: Shelving type, ±25 dB at 10 kHz

So the center frequencies have remained essentially the same. I do think that they have more "throw" now than they used to in the NY'er days; ±15 and ±25 now, where it used to be less than that (though I could be suffering from a brain fart on that one.)

 

[Jeffrey Wash]

Mark - Thank you very much for posting that! I confess I'm disappointed to see those same EQ center points. I'm a firm believer that the biggest factors in tone quality are player technique first, instrument 2nd, followed by amps, speakers and all the other gizmos. But the other gizmos can really help or really hinder what we musicians do, especially in live performance.

EQ aside, in all other respects the AI design approach is truly brilliant, IMHO, and I still may end up purchasing one of the newer models. But the thought of spending a 'grand and a half' on a combo amp with such a limited - downright un-expressive - EQ section gives me major cause for pause.

 

[kane612]

i notice that the HPF/low cut is no longer switchable to a notch filter on the series 4 amps. i have only recently decided to find a used (or new?) AI head, and as i am used to having some degree of parametric control (eden, gk mb150E), the lack of a notch on series 4 amps leads me to think i should save some money and get a used series 3, regardless of the improvements made to the new line.

so, anybody missing that notch filter?



edit/update: Yeah, now that I have acquired a Series 3 Focus, I am really glad I have the notch filter for microphone use. I'm not sure if the phase inversion really helps in the mic dept., but I know I would get much less volume before feedback without the notch...... and I rarely have feedback problems with the p/u, so I'm not missing the extra phase button on the S4. Perhaps when I get this new rig in a few more weird rooms I will change my tune, but I doubt it.

 

[Steve Freides]

i notice that the HPF/low cut is no longer switchable to a notch filter on the series 4 amps. i have only recently decided to find a used (or new?) AI head, and as i am used to having some degree of parametric control (eden, gk mb150E), the lack of a notch on series 4 amps leads me to think i should save some money and get a used series 3, regardless of the improvements made to the new line.

so, anybody missing that notch filter?

The folks at AI are very responsive to email questions - email Rick via the link on their web site and ask him, and he'll tell you _why_ they changed it to no longer have the notch option. (And if you do, please post a summary of his reply here.)

-S-

 

[tornadobass]

I like the new arrangement better. If I understand correctly, there is now a separate phase inversion button plus the high pass filter. In the series 3, you can get either HPF or notch with phase inv, but not HPF and phase inv.

 

[Ric Vice]

I like the new arrangement better. If I understand correctly, there is now a separate phase inversion button plus the high pass filter. In the series 3, you can get either HPF or notch with phase inv, but not HPF and phase inv.

Since I find a notch filter to be the court of last resort on the Headway EDB-1 if I had to chose between that and a phase reverse I'd probably favor the latter. Even though phase reverse is an all or nothing solution, when it works it works great. Notch filters are tricky little devils, at least for me.

Ric

 

[Michael Eisenman]

...In the series 3, you can get either HPF or notch with phase inv, but not HPF and phase inv.

I asked Rick at AI about this. I asked him whether—with a two-channel S3—you can take a line from Effects Send on Ch1 to preamp input on Ch2. In that way you can use HPF on one channel and phase invert on the other. Rick said that you might experience some noise, but no other contraindications. Playing with levels might mitigate that.

 

[tornadobass]

makes sense...except my two AI heads are one channel

 

[JxBass]

I'm not keen on my AI image Clarus for electric. That said it's really loud, reliable and consistent.
If I only played electric I would go elsewhere, but it does a fair job. For upright it's amazing!

I love my AI gear for electric bass. If you want something other than what your e.b. actually sounds like, there are now soooo many preamps, modelers, and effects boxes that it's not all that hard anymore to get whatever sound you want.

-S-

I only play electric and I can't say enough about my Clarus III. It replaced my Genz Benz Streamliner 900, and that's saying a lot for an electric bass head, IMO.

I'm curious to get Mark or Bob's opinion of the sonic difference between the Clarus III versus 4. The AI press release says "dramatically improved fidelity". Is it significant enough to upgrade? I'm pretty tempted ....

 

[Flo'Daddy]

I think it depends on the pickup on the upright and the electric bass as well. My Clarus was a series 2 and just didn't compare to a GB Shuttle 9 for doubling. I only had to change volume...

I'd l love to hear the new series 4... some sounds clips would be great . Maybe a side by side comparison with an earlier series...?

 

[JxBass]

I'd l love to hear the new series 4... some sounds clips would be great . Maybe a side by side comparison with an earlier series...?

My Clarus S4 should arrive tomorrow. I'll be comparing it to my Clarus Series III; I can't do any clips but I'll post my impressions.

 

[Mark Gollihur]

I'm curious to get Mark or Bob's opinion of the sonic difference between the Clarus III versus 4. The AI press release says "dramatically improved fidelity". Is it significant enough to upgrade? I'm pretty tempted ....

Bob plugged in a SIII Clarus+ and Clarus S4 side-by-side the other day; we played them through a Genz-Benz cabinet and an AI cabinet.

Our "warehouse" is hardly a critical listening environment, but we found there to be very little difference between the two heads - in sonic fidelity, overall power levels, or noise levels. I imagine that in a well-treated soundroom or recording studio you might be able to discern a difference - Rick (at AI) doesn't sell snake oil - but most of us are using these things on a gig. And in a live performance situation, the differences seem so minor that I'd be hard-pressed to urge you to upgrade to the S4 if you already have an amp you're happy with.

 

[JxBass]

I received my Clarus Series 4 today and I've done just a brief A/B between it and my Clarus+ Series III. I'm using my Rob Allen semi-acoustic with mag pickup and my Acme B-112 Full Range cabinet. I'm playing at low to moderate volumes at home.

I haven't noticed any difference in terms of the S4 being quieter. Of course, how quiet can you get when you're comparing to a very recent model AI amp?

I do hear a subtle difference in additional clarity, a little more sharpness to the notes, especially noticeable in the higher and lower ranges. Whether this would come through in a band setting - who knows. As Mark said, the differences are subtle. My first impression is that this results in the Series III sounding a bit warmer. I'm using the same EQ settings on both amps, I'll have to experiment a bit to see if I can dial in the Series III warmth on the S4.

My guess is that if you were listening to each amp out of the box without hearing the other you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. I'll continue my lab test and post any additional comments, if I have any of value.

 

[JxBass]

I've spent a bit more time comparing my Clarus+ Series III and Clarus Series 4 (S4). After further EQ tweaking I can get the two heads to be virtually indistinguishable in a blindfolded hearing test.

There is a noticeable difference (to me) in volume at the same pre & master settings, which makes sense with the extra wattage in the Clarus+. At first impression, the Clarus+ feels fuller with more headroom; however, a slight boost on the S4 volume puts in on par. My cabs are rated 350w and 550w at 4 ohms. Strictly a bass guitarist, I wouldn't have any concern about driving either with the S4 in a live setting.

I do see one situation where if feel the S4 is a true winner, IMHO:

I personally do not need a 2 channel Clarus, so my first dip into the Acoustic Image world was with the single channel Clarus 1 Series III. I quickly realized it wouldn't have the power and headroom I needed and immediately upgraded to the Clarus+. My Clarus S4 is the 1 channel version; given its extra power it would have been the perfect solution for me versus the Clarus 1 Series III. Timing is everything

Lastly, I'd like to give a shameless plug for Gollihur Music. No one knows the AI stuff better and their customer service can't be beat.