Setting String Height on a Fretless

[DavePlaysBass]

Ok. Basic question. I did some searching but did not really see what I was looking for.

I setup fretted basses all the time. Love doing it. I guess I am a little heavy handed in my playing as I have gravitated toward medium gauge strings set up to medium ish string height. That is compared to trying to setup lower gauge strings lower as I was 10 years ago.

I have my first SX fretless coming (5 string Jazz LPB). I just ordered a set of Sadowsky Flats (45-130).

When I start setting things up I would set the relief like I normally due which around 0.015" at the 9th fret. I would then set the string height measuring from the 12th fret up (with the first fret capoed).

Is is still good or valid to use the capo with a fretless?

Also given there is not 12th fret, would I want the string height to be comparable to the distance between the string bottom and the fret on a fretted?

I find the Sadowsky article and 12th fret numbers to be a great starting point. And I usually end up in the medium to medium high per the Sadowsky measurements with a fretted.

Thanks in advance.

Dave

 

[ByF]

Yes, you can still use the capo to set the relief, but you may want the neck straighter than you would set a fretted bass. Yes, I would start with the 12th fret height, but go to the board--that would be a good starting place, and adjust from there.

One thing I could never find in a book or on-line is that you may need to cut the nut slots deeper. Some manufacturer use the same stock nut on a fretless bass as on a fretted one, and the slots will be too high by the height of the missing frets. You can take the slots down to where they are just a few thousandths of an inch off the board.

Have fun.

Ed

 

[DavePlaysBass]

Does anyone have a good recipe for getting the right nut slot depth? And can I do the nut filing with common hardware store items? I have never ventured into the world of nut slot filing.

 

[PilbaraBass]

start with two business cards thickness from bottom of string to top of board. Some like it lower, but too low can be problematic.

get a set of those little needle files and work slowly with a SLIGHT back angle around 13 degrees... this way witness point is on the board side of the slot and notes will ring clear and in tune.

set action according to how much "mwahh" you want and how easily you want it to come out. I don't set my action too low, but certainly as low as any of my fretted basses.
I personally set relief on my fretless pretty straight, but I do the same with the fretted instruments (about 1 business card thick on the 8th fret).

 

[DavePlaysBass]

So I would file until the part of the nut that is closet to the board is about 2 business cards high and the nut side closest to the tuning pegs would be slightly lower?

Also can you pick up a set of these mini needle files at Lowes or Home Depot, or should I be looking else where. I see Hardware store needle file sets and then I see Hobbyist mini file sets. I am thinking maybe the Hobbyist mini file sets would be more in order?

 

[Tom Howland]

As someone already said.
Nut height is more of an issue.
It must be lower than a fretted bass.

 

[hasbeen]

So I would file until the part of the nut that is closet to the board is about 2 business cards high and the nut side closest to the tuning pegs would be slightly lower?

Also can you pick up a set of these mini needle files at Lowes or Home Depot, or should I be looking else where. I see Hardware store needle file sets and then I see Hobbyist mini file sets. I am thinking maybe the Hobbyist mini file sets would be more in order?

You are correct. If it was higher on the rear of the nut (closer to the machine heads), then the string would terminate and intonate there. Yes, you can get the set of files at any hardware store.

 

[hasbeen]

start with two business cards thickness from bottom of string to top of board. Some like it lower, but too low can be problematic.

get a set of those little needle files and work slowly with a SLIGHT back angle around 13 degrees... this way witness point is on the board side of the slot and notes will ring clear and in tune.

set action according to how much "mwahh" you want and how easily you want it to come out. I don't set my action too low, but certainly as low as any of my fretted basses.
I personally set relief on my fretless pretty straight, but I do the same with the fretted instruments (about 1 business card thick on the 8th fret).

very good post. ....this is the way to do it.

 

[benchpress11782]

So I would file until the part of the nut that is closet to the board is about 2 business cards high and the nut side closest to the tuning pegs would be slightly lower?

Also can you pick up a set of these mini needle files at Lowes or Home Depot, or should I be looking else where. I see Hardware store needle file sets and then I see Hobbyist mini file sets. I am thinking maybe the Hobbyist mini file sets would be more in order?

How did this project work out for you? I want to try it. Thanks

 

[byacey]

So I would file until the part of the nut that is closet to the board is about 2 business cards high and the nut side closest to the tuning pegs would be slightly lower?

Also can you pick up a set of these mini needle files at Lowes or Home Depot, or should I be looking else where. I see Hardware store needle file sets and then I see Hobbyist mini file sets. I am thinking maybe the Hobbyist mini file sets would be more in order?

I would be careful with the needle files; it's easy to inadvertently cut the slot wider which can cause the string to rattle sideways.

 

[Turnaround]

Two business cards is really high in my books. Less that 1/2 thickness of one business card is where I put them - just high enough that the strings aren't actually touching the fingerboard.

 

[Fred Miller]

I know this is an old thread, but I'd like to add my knowledge for future visitors.

As has been previously noted, nuts made for fretted basses are usually way too high for a fretless bass.

Rather than filing the nut slots to reduce the string height, better to take material away from the underside of the nut. My preferred method is to move the nut over abrasive paper on a flat surface (I use the glass top of my kitchen hob). 320 or 400 grit paper is good. This is, assuming the nut slot has been cut flat.

The rate of material removal can be determined by replacing the nut on the instrument and re-measuring the height periodically.

I use feeler gauges to check the height, they are very affordable and easy to use.

When close to the desired height (I aim for 1mm (0.04")), final adjustments can be made with a tapered round needle file and/or proper nut files.

If you take too much away, there are several remedies - glue a strip of veneer to the underside of the nut to raise it up or, fill the slot(s) with dust collected from working on the nut and apply a drop of ca glue (superglue). When it sets the slot can be re-cut. Or you could buy a new nut and start over.

To fix the nut in place, I use a smear of ca glue at each end. This is enough to stop it falling out when strings are changed, and makes it fairly easy to remove when needed.

I hope this is is useful, I've been working on fretless basses for nearly 40 years.

 

[Fred Miller]

Also can you pick up a set of these mini needle files at Lowes or Home Depot, or should I be looking else where. I see Hardware store needle file sets and then I see Hobbyist mini file sets. I am thinking maybe the Hobbyist mini file sets would be more in order?

Better to buy proper nut files. Or you can make your own with brass rod wrapped with abrasive paper.

 

[Michael Moore]

Straight neck. .080 at the octave(12th fret line). Set intonation. Seriously.