Sheet Music and Hand Position: Where does the left hand go?

[Guiseppe]

I'm in the baby stages of refreshing my music theory and applying it to bass. Years back (in school) I was taught that as long as you play the correct note, it doesn't matter what position your fretting hand is in. Tonight I was looking at an Eb major scale and got to wondering: Was my teaching right? Obviously, if my bass is in standard tuning I either have to start in position 1 (Eb on the D string) or position 3 (on the A at the 6th fret). Is there a right answer to this question? (and no, getting a 5-string isn't the answer I want).

Thanks in advance for your input.

 

[Stumbo]

 

[Garret Graves]

You can and should be able to read in E flat from position 1, or as you call it position 3 as well (I would call first finger on the 5th fret position 5 myself, for Electric Bass Guitar). Practice reading and thinking of the notes all over the neck. So for Eb, in position 1 the notes available starting on <Estring> are F, G, Ab, to the<A string> Bb, C, D <D string> Eb F G and <G string>Ab Bb and C. In each position, you can find three notes per string in the scale, and that pattern is called 'application fingering'.

 

[Guiseppe]

I like this. Confirms what I've always thought.

 

[BassChuck]

I would say the starting position is determined by what comes next. Eb 1st fret makes sense if the next note is G below. Makes no sense if the note is the G note a 10th above, yet in both cases the move is simple, if you start in the right place.
If you're sight reading, start as close as you can to the middle and start reading ahead a couple notes.

 

[Mushroo]

Don't forget Eb at the 11th fret of the E string! That is the "fattest sounding" Eb on some of my basses.

Most sight reading students follow a progression in skill, where they start off playing the easiest fingerings, and eventually progress to playing the best-sounding fingerings.

 

[onda'bass]

it is all in context of what your playing. do it on one string if needed.

 

[Scottgun]

Years back (in school) I was taught that as long as you play the correct note, it doesn't matter what position your fretting hand is in

Sort of. I like the pool analogy. You could say that at long as the ball goes in the pocket, it doesn't matter how it got there. But anyone who has played for awhile knows that the best pool players not only sink the ball, but also set themselves up for the next shot. Same with fingering.

I'm a little wary of that chart's talk of "needless shifting". I've been ingrained with a kind of never-shift-unless-absolutely-needed (granted the chart isn't saying that) mentality, but I've found by really experimenting with fingerings that include shifts that are not technically needed at that moment I set myself up better for upcoming runs and my playing improved. Try a difficult run as many ways as you can. Even seemingly really weird ways.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

If you're doing scale/arpeggio work, you want to practice all scales and all arpeggios in all possible fingerings, so all positions. If you're reading a chart, you apply the work you've done on scales and arpeggios in all positions to determine the best fingerings and shifts to most efficiently get those notes out into the air. It's more a guideline than a rule, but I was taught that if the line you're reading is ascending, you want to choose shifts and fingering so that the highest note is played with the 4th finger (or 3rd in thumb position on DB), if descending, you want to play the last note with the first finger.

 

[Malcolm35]

I'm in the baby stages of refreshing my music theory and applying it to bass. ..... Obviously, if my bass is in standard tuning I either have to start in position 1 (Eb on the D string) or position 3 (on the A at the 6th fret). Is there a right answer to this question? (and no, getting a 5-string isn't the answer I want).

How I play, and where I play it, depends on what sheet music I am using.

Standard notation and fake chord I tend to stay in first position, i.e. first five frets of the neck. As with this sheet music I'm thinking in note names and the A, B, C's. Now to where do the fingers go. I let C be my "home" note, D is up two frets same string. The B is back a fret same string. The E is over the B, the F is over the C and the G is below the C and the A is below the D. That's "home" for me when I think in A, B, C's.

Nashville numbers, noodling and improvising I walk up the neck to the key needed then think in chord tones, or scale order numbers, for example R-5-8-5 or T-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 with the major scale box pattern as a guide. And yes, there is normally three places on the neck you can catch the root or tonic. For example: C @ the third string, third fret. C @ the forth string, eighth fret or C @ the 15th fret third string.

Major scale box showing scale degree numbers
and the root/tonic note on the 4th string.
....Index..middle..ring....little
G|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---1---|-------|---2---|4th string
Place the 1 and find your notes within the box.
Cmaj7 chord's spelling would be R-3-5-7.
A C Dorian mode spelling would be T-2-b3-4-5-6-b7.
Place the root/tonic note then play the spelling for
what you want.

So I'm using several positions of the neck and thinking in A, B, C's and the 1, 2, 3's. Not saying this is the correct way just what has developed over the years, and seems to work for me.

Happy trails.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

If you're playing in flat keys a lot - with keys, horns, choir, whatever, you really do want a five string if for only that one Eb note on the B string.

Anyways, where you play a note largely depends on the notes prior to that not and the notes following. Don't try to play everything in first position. When you're practicing, look at the music and determine what position would make it easier to play in and don't be afraid of shifting positions.

With keys, you play an E4 in exactly one place on the keyboard. So you just have to figure out the fingerings to get yourself from note to note. That's why standard notation is popular for keys. With guitar and bass to a lesser extent, you can play the same note in multiple positions and that makes playing a multidimensional equation. This, tab is widely used for guitar and bass because it also shows you where to play. With some practice, we can get away with standard notation but it's even more difficult for guitar with two additional strings. Especially when they're playing multiple notes. We have it easy with (mostly) single notes, making standard notation more reasonable.

 

[JimmyM]

I do a quick scan of the chart when I get it for hard parts and range, then decide where to put my left hand from there.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

I'm in the baby stages of refreshing my music theory and applying it to bass. Years back (in school) I was taught that as long as you play the correct note, it doesn't matter what position your fretting hand is in. Tonight I was looking at an Eb major scale and got to wondering: Was my teaching right? Obviously, if my bass is in standard tuning I either have to start in position 1 (Eb on the D string) or position 3 (on the A at the 6th fret). Is there a right answer to this question? (and no, getting a 5-string isn't the answer I want).

Thanks in advance for your input.

To correctly play an Eb Major scale in one position without shifting, which is ideal if you're reading from a chart (as opposed to looking at your fretboard), you'd want to to play in fifth position (middle finger on 6th fret Eb). You're teacher was right- as lng as you're comfortable enough to jump positions without taking your eyes off the sheet music.

 

[Ekulati]

You're overthinking this "position" stuff, on a fretted electric bass anyway. Learn each scale at every position, as you need them.

 

[obimark]

This is where TAB is actually superiour if it is well done.

Because there are some songs (like Jamerson) where that E flat is played at the 1st fret and other songs where the 6th fret works better. Sheet music doesn't tell you that at all.

 

[IamGroot]

This is where TAB is actually superiour if it is well done.

Because there are some songs (like Jamerson) where that E flat is played at the 1st fret and other songs where the 6th fret works better. Sheet music doesn't tell you that at all.

Sheet music CAN tell you that if the position is noted. Classical guitar and Double bass often indicates the hand position if its not obvious.

I have posted several threads in the technique forum. I think hand position is a big deal, esp.if you play Bach or jazz saxophone solos. But I am probably in the minority. It took me months of trial and error to figure out the right fingering for Charlie Parkers "Ornithology" but it was well worth it in terms of what I learned about hand position and shifting.

 

[IamGroot]

Understanding hand position that goes with a given scale/mode is a very valuable skill as Ed Fuqua described.

Charley Parker solos are the next step in the learning progressio as his solos take you through transitions involving notes that are not under the fingers in the traditional scalar approach. It takes a lot of shifting to get a phrasing that begins to resemble the Birds sax sound.

 

[thehindteet]

I don't agree with the advice you got about the position not mattering. It's very illuminating to learn to sight read on the piano, because you will discover that if you put your hands into "position", you don't even need to think about the note names when you play, you are just visually identifying intervals by the position of the note heads on the staff, and the right finger hits the right key.

If you take the same approach on bass, for example if I give you a song in Bb major, you shift up so that your middle finger is covering Bb on the E string, you can essentially read the same way. You see the interval, and your hands just do the work.

Obviously, this works best for contrived example etudes where the piece is written to fit position playing, but being able to play a melody by just seeing the intervals and not having to think about what the note is is really the only hope you have of being able to cold sight pieces at tempo; playing in position is not the only possible way to do that, but it sure makes it easier.

 

[SLO Surfer]

Best left hand position while sight reading depends on the note I just came from and the note I'm about go to.

 

[StatesideRambler]

Years back (in school) I was taught that as long as you play the correct note, it doesn't matter what position your fretting hand is in.

Whoever "taught" you that was ill-equipped for teaching. Position matters quite a lot when you grow beyond early-intermediate playing, and not only for the physical act of getting from one note to the next, though that's bloody important. Timbre and feel are also affected by your selection of string/fret for that Eb. Second string first fret sounds quite different from third string sixth fret and from fourth string eleventh fret. There will be times when one aspect of playing outweighs others, such as being slightly off with your timbre or pitch vs. being way off with your timing, as an example. You'll be the one to decide which is the lesser of the evils; which one will more likely earn the stinkeye from the BL/MD.

If you're playing in flat keys a lot - with keys, horns, choir, whatever, you really do want a five string if for only that one Eb note on the B string.

I play with horns more often than not and have never felt need of a five-string. I know that a lot of players disagree but their arguments haven't been compelling.