Shifting question

[Sean Duncan]

Hello, I've been learning to read music from a hal leonard book. They teach to use index on first fret, middle finger on second fret and pinky on the third fret.

For the first shift, they have it as index on third, middle on fourth and pinky on the fifth.

Conversely, I had a bass teacher that taught one finger per fret. He didn't give me a definite rule on shifting. Kind of depending on where you are and where the music is going. If there was a definite rule, I'd think it would be finger-per-fret on 1-4 and then 5-9 and so on, maybe adjust it depending on the key you're in (finger per fret on 2-5 and then 6-10).

Typing this out I kind of got my answer, I think I should disregard the Hal Leonard books suggestion. It was probably written with kids playing in mind that likely can't do a finger per fret.

Open to suggestions and comments!

 

[SteveCS]

Typing this out I kind of got my answer, I think I should disregard the Hal Leonard books suggestion. It was probably written with kids playing in mind that likely can't do a finger per fret.

If you are talking about the Ed Friedland book then you are way off. The 1-2-4 (or 1-3-4) methods are time-served and proven. Ed introduces the 4-finger method about 1/3 of the way into book 2, along with solid advice on how to do it safely. There are no points in this game for holding on to an open extended hand with fingers poised over, or (worse) clamped down on four adjacent frets but not actually doing anything. Maintaining pointless tension and stress in the hand for long periods only leads one way, and it isn't onwards and upwards. Many many players, myself included, use one or both of the 3-finger methods in lower positions then transition to a 4-finger technique at or around frets 5 -7/8.
YMMV

 

[Groove Doctor]

No concrete rules - and you can switch between techniques mid-song as needed.

Learn to do mini-shifts:
keep your thumb fixed on the back and adjust your fingers towards the nut one fret or towards the bridge 1-2 frets, then immediately back to regular position.
Total game changer.

 

[SteveCS]

Regarding when and where to shift, there are no rules, and you should practice all kinds of shifts, including departing and landing on all possible finger/string/interval combinations. Also shifting whilst playing the same note with different left hand fingers. The point of Ed's suggestion isn't to set hard and fast rules, but to give you something concrete to help you practice deliberately. Deliberate and conscious practice of something is always better than unstructured or random noodling, IME/IMHO. Once you master Ed's exercises, extend and expand it using the combinations and permutations idea.

 

[Sean Duncan]

If you are talking about the Ed Friedland book then you are way off. The 1-2-4 (or 1-3-4) methods are time-served and proven. Ed introduces the 4-finger method about 1/3 of the way into book 2, along with solid advice on how to do it safely. There are no points in this game for holding on to an open extended hand with fingers poised over, or (worse) clamped down on four adjacent frets but not actually doing anything. Maintaining pointless tension and stress in the hand for long periods only leads one way, and it isn't onwards and upwards. Many many players, myself included, use one or both of the 3-finger methods in lower positions then transition to a 4-finger technique at or around frets 5 -7/8.
YMMV

Yea the ed Friedland complete bass method book. I'll have to fast forward and see what he says about it.

I don't think it's pointless and I think strength will build as you do it and focus on it more and more. Great perspective regardless, thanks.

 

[Wasnex]

I started with Simandl fingering (1,2,4). About two years into being a full-time pro, I started to think it would be advantageous to use one finger per fret (OFPF) on bass guitar. I was not long before I started the transition. I didn't take lessons or use a book...I just figured it out. I continued with Simandl on double bass.

The mechanics of shifting is pretty much the same regardless of which fingering system I am using. However, where the shifts occur varies depending upon which fingering system I am using.

Different types of shifts include pivots, shifts, and micro shifts. A pivot is where the hand pivots or rotates on the thumb to reach up or down a half step. With a shift, the entire hand moves up or down the neck, usually by a full step or more. You can also do micro-shifts that move the hand up or down a half step. The angle of the thumb stays fairly constant with shifts or micro shifts.

One of the keys to effective shifting is to avoid pinching the strings between your fingers and thumb. The amount of pressure the thumb applies to the back of the neck should be minimal. IMHO the thumb's primary role is to facilitate stability rather than apply a lot of force.

You can also use a different type of fingering system that employs all four fingers, but avoids spreading them out to cover four frets. Instead of spreading the fingers wide, a shift or pivot is employed. I think of this as sort of a hybrid approach that results in different finger and shift patterns than Simandl or OFPF.

There are some minor OFPF patterns that I find hard on my hand and wrist when played near the nut on the B and E strings. Depending on the pattern, I may revert to Simandl or work out a hybrid pattern.

 

[SteveCS]

I don't think it's pointless and I think strength will build as you do it and focus on it more and more.

IME it's less a question of strength and more one of dexterity. Back when I started out in the early '80s, the 4-finger technique was the latest and greatest idea which we all adopted with full commitment. Now, 40 years on, I still go there when necessary, but for the most part it isn't, so I don't.

 

[KenD]

Just to throw a couple of other thoughts into the mix, your fingering and shifting will vary depending on the scale and number of strings of the bass you are playing, as well as your hand/finger size.

 

[VW fan]

I've been learning a song which (for me) is quite challenging; repeatedly analysing video of exact finger position by the artist and creating tablature.
There have been numerous times when I've thought "that doesn't feel natural or make sense", only to discover that in the next bar, it does make sense (kind of like a chess player thinking beyond what appears to be an obvious next move).
Theoretically, I don't believe that any particular practice routine is inherently good or bad.
Increasing dexterity and strength, while being mindful of "bad" pain, IMHO is essential.

 

[SteveCS]

Yea the ed Friedland complete bass method book. I'll have to fast forward and see what he says about it.

Page 65

 

[lark_z]

That book is absolutely wonderful. When I have to use OFPT at the low frets usually for arpeggios, like 1-3-5-6, I have to do small hand shifts during the arpeggio.

 

[tonym]

Benefits of and when to use each, and 'microshifting' as mentioned by several above.

 

[bertthebassist]

It depends on how long your fingers are.

 

[Lo-E]

My first teacher (who was a guitarist and, knowing that, was only willing to get me started and then suggested I study with a bassist) taught me one-finger-per-fret.

My second teacher suggested I switch to Simandl (1-2-4) fingering. He had very small hands and I don’t so I didn’t really think it would be that useful. Still, I did the exercises he assigned and used one-finger-per-fret when playing on my own.

My next teacher had me work almost everything out using both fingerings as well as using extended fingerings that included micro-shifts in both directions. She also had me learn lines using patterns across as well as along the fingerboard. When I asked her which patterns and fingerings I should use and where, she said “Just practice all of it. Your hand will figure out the best fingerings when the time comes.” She wasn’t wrong. It took a couple of years for all of those options to work their way into my playing but they did. I use a variety of patterns and shifts to get to where I need to be and most of those decisions are unconscious. Friedland’s books are trying to set you up with the same options to choose from and the same familiarity with them to negate needing to think about it.

 

[tshapiro]

As I advanced in my playing, I came to realize that versatility vs. hard and fast rules is key. When learning to play very fast and really highlighting notes that characterize the modes of a scale (notes that sit 1 fret away from each other), I often switch to just index and ring finger for everything. I learned that technique from a shredder guitar player. Dumbing down the fingering sets you free to do 2-finger trills and do string skipping. Also, I’ve found that playing live and needing to move around energetically added a whole new challenge to playing - namely just hanging onto the bass or being able to grab cleanly while in motion. With this, I rarely use 1234 but rather use 124 or 134. And, I often use my ring and pinky together as a single ‘finger’ to have plenty of strength. Unless I’m struggling to play a part, I actually try not to think about my fingering and find that my brain will teach my fingers the most efficient way to go about things. To this point, sometimes I learned a part with one fingering only to find that months later I’m using more efficient fingering yet I never re-worked it… my brain just took over. All this being said, I think it’s best to not sweat over which fingerings to use as you’ll likely switch things up as you advance in your playing.

 

[mambo4]

she said “Just practice all of it. Your hand will figure out the best fingerings when the time comes.” She wasn’t wrong.

Funny , I was reading this thread and reflecting on how after decades of playing I rarely think about which fingering to use or when and where to shift. It just happens intuitively. I have put in woodshed time on both 1234 and 124 fingering, and various ways of shifting position. But generally I have always focused on the material at hand for the next gig. Occasionally I hit a difficult passage, stop and consciously apply the particular fingering or shifting that works bets in context. But generally, I practiced them all, and don't consciously think about it when playing.

 

[Killing Floor]

Ring finger can be used also.

 

[ajkula66]

Ring finger can be used also.

 

[mambo4]

There are no points in this game for holding on to an open extended hand with fingers poised over, or (worse) clamped down on four adjacent frets but not actually doing anything.

I agree with this but I did want to make the distinction:
I do use the all my fingers for "backup" when fingering with my pinky for example
I definitely do not splay my hand trying to maintain a precise position for each fret in a 4 fret span
I relax them into a comfortable shape to support my pinky, but they are all on the string lending support.

 

[SteveCS]

I agree with this but I did want to make the distinction:
I do use the all my fingers for "backup" when fingering with my pinky for example
...
I relax them into a comfortable shape to support my pinky, but they are all on the string lending support.

I'm in no way trying to make a point of right or wrong, so perhaps an explanation of my reasoning is in order:

I remember years ago when I was going through trying to really develop my fretless legato playing, with lines that involved string crossing and arpeggios a bit like this:

I knew that the smoothest legato is created when the end of the previous note is allowed to 'blur' or 'smear' seamlessly into the start of the next. So, when crossing strings I found that using free strokes (for the inherent lack of muting) and individual fingers (to carry out 'late' muting duties) rather than barre (e.g. A-D in the middle of bar 1) helped to control this, as did keeping the higher strings down as notes on lower strings came along (e.g. G-E-C-A in bar 2), In doing so, providing 'rear support' for pinky is difficult if not impossible. For example, try keeping index (1) and ring (3) on the D and E behind the F whilst bringing middle (2) into position (part of a shift) for the first A in bar 1! And for the last A in bar 2, pinky is alone because index and middle are still stopping then muting the G and D strings respectively. My logic was, if I don't need here, I probably don't need it anywhere, and that proved to be the case.

YMMV.