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Shims: The lazy mans fix??

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#21
AdamR said:
Every fender Ive had was shimmed from the factory. I dont hear a difference with or with out them.
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smcd said:
That '61 Jazz you rave about, the miracle of sound you brag about having played once years ago... that bass probably had a shimmed neck.
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I gotta chuckle. I have owned dozens of Fenders and other bolt ons, I routinely check the neck pocket as I re-set the neck on all my bolt ons, and I think maybe I saw a shim in a very cheap bass once, never in a Fender.

To say this is the routine for bolt ons or Fenders in general, or that it's the norm or even common practice, is highly questionable, I doubt that is actually the case.
 
#22
I think there is way too much fury in this debate..

It's a good thing that we can all alter the tone of our electric basses by adding, removing, crafting different shims.

Come on guys/gals, lets embrace the options. Learn them all, love them all. Come closer.. Now, let us hug. Do you want more sustain? Here, try this.. Less? Try this.. Ahhhhhh, now relax, breathe, let it alllll out. I love you. Jesus

Hahaha
 
#23
Most unsubstantiated claims result in polarizing opinions - it can be expected. :)

A shim may affect tone, but how would you know that the changes you've experienced are more than just the power of suggestion (cognitive bias)?

I have a great tone shim here in my hand, that the maker states improves sustain and musical coupling to enhance the purity of tone of my bass.

I also have a great bottle of snake oil in my hand that the maker states improves my mental spirit and fullness of my capacity for breathing.

As long as I keep believing both of those suggestions, it's going to be a great year! :D
 
#25
Hopkins said:
I think you guys are splitting hairs. I have never noticed any noticeable sustain difference between a shimmed or unshimmed or even a bolt on vs set or neck through. Every bolt on neck I own but one has a shim in the neck and they will all sustain a not longer than I would ever need them to. How long are you guys holding these notes?
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+1 I spend most of my time trying to get rid of sustain? I would probably be more concerned if I played guitar.
 
#27
electracoyote said:
I gotta chuckle. I have owned dozens of Fenders and other bolt ons, I routinely check the neck pocket as I re-set the neck on all my bolt ons, and I think maybe I saw a shim in a very cheap bass once, never in a Fender.

To say this is the routine for bolt ons or Fenders in general, or that it's the norm or even common practice, is highly questionable, I doubt that is actually the case.
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I have seen shims a lot ofMiM Fenders I have had the necks off of. Not so much on MIA Fenders.
 
#28
Hopkins said:
I have seen shims a lot ofMiM Fenders I have had the necks off of. Not so much on MIA Fenders.
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Interesting. Not that I doubt your word, but I have three MIM's 2009 and newer, and a couple of older ones, not one has a shim, nor do they even require it.

Then again, between my tech and I, we have found ways to improve playability and set-up without using shims.

I must be very lucky. Or the reports of Fenders coming with shims from the factory are greatly exaggerated. I'll let the reader decide.
 
#30
Removing/adding a shim does not improve sustain or change tone, except if you don't adjust pickups and they are higher because the shim was removed. Try an A/B test if you need convinced.
You guys really are worrying about nothing with this whole shim issue.
 
#31
Jazz Ad said:
Removing/adding a shim does not improve sustain or change tone, except if you don't adjust pickups and they are higher because the shim was removed. Try an A/B test if you need convinced.
You guys really are worrying about nothing with this whole shim issue.
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And on it goes.... The difference on my bass - partial shim vs full shim - was not only audible but feel-able.
 
#32
Amateur phyicists, not entirely unlike the Wizard of Oz.
"Well my boy, you see, the vibrations of sound tone must run through the tralfaz of wood, and if air gets in the way, well, ho ho, the blamnitz has to jump across the uh... uh.. space molecular gap and well... there it is!"
 
#33
smcd said:
Amateur phyicists, not entirely unlike the Wizard of Oz.
"Well my boy, you see, the vibrations of sound tone must run through the tralfaz of wood, and if air gets in the way, well, ho ho, the blamnitz has to jump across the uh... uh.. space molecular gap and well... there it is!"
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Density of material aids vibration. This is why dynamite creates a much more deadly blast through water than air. The vibration is aided by the density. Air is not dense and decreases sympathetic resonance. This is why a gap of air is placed between two panes of glass to create a soundproof window.

Some peoples brains are very dense.. They would make great shims! LOL
 
#34
Hopkins said:
I think you guys are splitting hairs. I have never noticed any noticeable sustain difference between a shimmed or unshimmed or even a bolt on vs set or neck through. Every bolt on neck I own but one has a shim in the neck and they will all sustain a not longer than I would ever need them to. How long are you guys holding these notes?
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That's what I always wonder when people talk about "sustain",I've never (in 30 years) been in a situation that required me needing more of it. And I'm more of a bolt on guy/owner.If anything I'm trying to dial it down for a slap style (W/ compression).
When I think of needing more,it's a six string note bending solo. But even the I never needed more of it?
 
#35
Kunekune said:
Density of material aids vibration. This is why dynamite creates a much more deadly blast through water than air. The vibration is aided by the density. Air is not dense and decreases sympathetic resonance. This is why a gap of air is placed between two panes of glass to create a soundproof window.

Some peoples brains are very dense.. They would make great shims! LOL
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Well if a tidal wave crashes over curb there has to be some sort of effect. But it is so small that it wouldn't be measureable. The same can be said about the tiny air gap when a shim is installed.

A piece of paper or wood smashed between two pieces of wood wouldn't have much of a gap at all. The wood will compress around it.
 
#36
An analogy between the standing vibration of a string and the radiating wave of an explosion makes no sense.
Sound waves don't travel through the neck assembly.
If you feel that it is better for your bass to go without a shim, do it. Just don't try to teach that it makes sense tonewise.
 
#37
Hopkins said:
Well if a tidal wave crashes over curb there has to be some sort of effect. But it is so small that it wouldn't be measureable. The same can be said about the tiny air gap when a shim is installed.

A piece of paper or wood smashes that hard between two pieces of wood wouldn't have much of a gap at all. The wood will compress around it.
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Sad but UNtrue. Think of leaning the palm of your hand on the hood of a running chev. The slightest change in pressure applied will vary the vibration you feel in a big way. Every and any gap is relative in the world of sound. Don't burn yourself on the chev hood! Owch
 
#38
A properly set up instrument will play better. A instrument that plays better will sound better. Sometimes a shim is needed for good action or to get a good break angle over the saddles
 
#39
why even bother with shims because of bottomed-out saddles????:confused:

i simply shave a few nanometers from each groove to allow further adjustment. too many variables to deal with on "neck to body" parameters. of course, the last time i suggested this on TB, i was burned at the proverbial stake by the faithful. :(
even if you shave too much material you have the set-screws to compensate. but even if you totally ruin the saddles, a replacement set is less than $5.00 times the number of strings!
(also, if you're afraid of ruining the string grooves,.. shave the bottom slightly. a little goes a long way)

flame-on!:hiding:
 
#40
Jazz Ad said:
An analogy between the standing vibration of a string and the radiating wave of an explosion makes no sense.
Sound waves don't travel through the neck assembly.
If you feel that it is better for your bass to go without a shim, do it. Just don't try to teach that it makes sense tonewise.
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Yes they do?? They travel through the whole instrument?? Same laws, different application. Btw, you should read the whole thread.
 
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