Short scale drop-D strings?

[DECEMBER]

I love my Gretsch Electromatic short scale bass, but I didn't consider strings when I bought it. It has been the most time-consuming and frustrating endeavor to try to find proper strings for it. I've literally spent days online searching everything I can think of, and still have yet to come up with what I need.
I play drop-D, DADG. I need a super crisp, bright, blue sound. Dean Markley Blue Steels are my favorite strings ever, but they don't make them in short scale.
Dropping the D makes the string too loose, and short scales naturally have less tension than long.
Heavy gauge short scale bass strings simply do not exist. I'm using DR Hi Beams, 45 65 85 105. The gauge, except for the 105, is perfect. The only bigger size I've come across are GHS, but they're 50 70 90 107, so it adds a LOT more tension everywhere but where I need it (only .002 more on the low D).
I'm needing a 115 or 120 for the D, but the only way I've found to get that in short scale is to get a 5 string set. There's a Dunlop 40 60 80 (100) 120, but the 40 60 80 is too small. The Hi Beams 5 string set is 45 65 85 (105) 125. That's looking like my best bet, but the 125 is a bit too much. There's also a Dunlop Super Bright 45-125 set.
Ideally, they would be bright stainless steel, but I would be willing to try to see if I can make the nickel-plated work if I can find the right set.
ANY SUGGESTIONS?
Thank you!
-Matei
DECEMBERmusic.org
MUSIC with INTENT for a PURPOSEFUL UNIVERSE

 

[michael_t]

According to @iiipopes, GHS Balanced Nickels are the best strings for short-scale basses.

SETS - SHORT SCALE BALANCED NICKELS

 

[iiipopes]

Yes. On GHS BPN's the pure nickel wrap is more dense, meaning more mass for the size, than nickel plated steel, so it has more tension for the same diameter string, so the strings don't flop or twang, and have intonation security. And being round wound on a round core, they keep their tone and don't go thud. But I will say that these strings have a big round tone, which may not be to your liking.

To get the bright tone, you may have to put up with flimsy strings that won't intonate securely on a short scale bass due to lack of tension from the shorter scale. Tension varies as the square of the scale length, not linearly. So, doing the math 30.3^2 / 34^2 means if you use the short scale version of most sets of strings of the same gauges to keep your bright tone, you only have @ 80% of the tension, which will cause fretting intonation issues.

The other option is to try to find a heavier stainless steel round set if one is out there, knowing that because of the increased diameter of the core of the E string, it will go thud, so you will have to purchase extra E strings to keep the consistent bright tone over time of practice, rehearsal, and gigging.

 

[michael_t]

I'm using DR Hi Beams, 45 65 85 105. The gauge, except for the 105, is perfect. The only bigger size I've come across are GHS, but they're 50 70 90 107, so it adds a LOT more tension everywhere but where I need it (only .002 more on the low D).

Gauges are only part of the whole equation when it comes to how a string feels at a certain pitch.

Hi Beams, round-core by DR, tend to be looser in feel overall and not particularly suited for down-tuning even for long scale.

GHS Balanced Nickel 106E, being pure nickel, have more tension than the Boomer 107E (NPS) when down-tuned to D - 27.7 lbs. vs. 26.1 lbs.

 

[HaphAsSard]

the 125 is a bit too much

Is it though? Tension of a 125 tuned to D on a 30.3" bass should be no more than that a good ole 100 low E on a 34" scaler. Looking at it from another angle, it would be the functional equivalent of tuning a long scale string of the same gauge up a semitone, from B (at which pitch it isn't tight at all, even on standard scale) to C.
Since you're already using DR strings I assume their "short-scale" sets (33.75" winding length from ball-end to tuner-end taper) fit fine on your Gretsch. I do believe the MR5-45 set (minus the 105) is indeed your best bet for short-scale DADG.
The round-core construction, being more flexible, is actually a plus for the lowest string, since you will be uptuning, not downtuning it: you might gain a fret or two's worth of string up the neck before it gets overly chorusy, compared to a hex-core 125.

 

[michael_t]

Since you're already using DR strings I assume their "short-scale" sets (33.75" winding length from ball-end to tuner-end taper) fit fine on your Gretsch.

"Winding length" is an important consideration. I probably should have mentioned it earlier.

DR Hi Beams "short scale" = 33.75" ball end to taper.
GHS Balanced Nickels "short scale" = 32.75" ball end to taper/silk.

Just make sure 32.75" is long enough for your bass before you try them.

 

[DECEMBER]

I don't have any problems with intonation. I know how to setup the bridge, and the 12th, the harmonic & the open are all spot on. The only problem is the floppy, fret-buzzy low D.
I used a tension calculator and found that a 125 tuned to D would be almost the same as my 85 A, so I got the 45-125 super bright Dunlop set. Since it's $8 less than the DR set, and I already know how the DRs sound, I will get to compare with the Dunlops, see how the 125 works out, and since the Dunlop & DRs are basically my only options, then after I try the Dunlops, I'll know which I like best.
I know the pure nickels won't be what I need. They're almost all the way on the mellow end of GHS's Bright-mellow scale.
I just don't understand why companies can't provide more short scale options, and more heavier options, especially since short scale has less tension, you'd think that they'd make heavier strings for it to compensate.
Thanks for the advice everyone!

 

[michael_t]

I just don't understand why companies can't provide more short scale options, and more heavier options, especially since short scale has less tension, you'd think that they'd make heavier strings for it to compensate.

This is how I used to think. But...

A string at 40 lbs. of tension on a 34" scale doesn't vibrate the same way as a string at the same tension on a 30" scale as it would need to be thicker. As the scale gets shorter, the string gets stiffer and less flexible at the same tension. So, in order for a string to have the same tonal quality on a short scale as a long scale, it actually needs to be lower in tension.

For example, if you're used to playing a 45-105 set on a 34" scale, you might want to start with the same gauges on a short scale as well. They would naturally have less tension (as in pulling weight), but in terms of the overall playing feel and tonal quality, they would be closer than you might expect.

Increasing the gauges for short-scale sets to compensate for the reduced tension is not always the answer.

 

[HaphAsSard]

This is how I used to think. But...

A string at 40 lbs. of tension on a 34" scale doesn't vibrate the same way as a string at the same tension on a 30" scale as it would need to be thicker.

I know we're already discussed this but, if that same thicker string is in use on the long-scale bass (tuned to a lower note), what's the difference in using it on a short-scale, with the nut being at a distance to the bridge comparable to where you fret it on the long scale?
As I said, here we have a 125 tuned to D at 30.3"; if I have a long-scale 5-string bass, with a 125 low B, and on a whim tune it up to C, if I fret it at the 2nd, I have the same exact string, producing the same note as before...at the same distance from the bridge.
Pickup placement apart, the only substantial difference I can surmise (save from a very slight looser feel, and possibly a slightly more stable pitch, upon the attack, since a longer length of string gets stretched by the plucking finger or pick, on the standard-scale instrument) is that, if the rate of inharmonicity becomes annoying at, say, the 11th fret on the long-scaler, it will at the 9th fret with the shortie.

 

[DECEMBER]

So I got the 45-125 Dunlop Super Bright Stainless Steels today. I put on: 45 65 85 125. The tension is:
G 45 - 34lbs
D 65 - 40.7lbs
A 85 - 38.4lbs
D 125 - 38.7lbs
The 125 is way too big. It doesn't even fit in the nut. It doesn't completely go thud, as iiipopes was saying, but I see what you're getting at.
It's not loose enough to growl.
D 105 - 25.4lbs. That's too loose and there's constant fret buzz and sometimes I push the string off the side of the fretboard.
So I need one loose enough to growl but tight enough to not fret buzz.
E 105 - 32lbs
D 115 - 32lbs
I can't find a short scale 115, steel, nickel or otherwise (actually, there is a 115 nylon).
So, my options are: get the 45-105 set of Dunlop or DR, then get the 40-120 5 string Dunlop set just to use the 120, or get a nickel-plated single 110 from Stringjoy. Totalling $34 - $52.
The 110 is probably the better choice. It'll fit in the nut. The 120 might still not fit, but I think it would. The 120 would be stainless steel, the 110 nps.
I really want that 115!!!! It's so frustrating!
D 110 - 29.1lbs
D 120 - 35.2lbs
D 125 - 38.7lbs
D 115 - 32lbs
E 105 - 32lbs

 

[Rocket Queen]

So I got the 45-125 Dunlop Super Bright Stainless Steels today. I put on: 45 65 85 125. The tension is:
G 45 - 34lbs
D 65 - 40.7lbs
A 85 - 38.4lbs
D 125 - 38.7lbs

Just out of honest curiosity, where are you getting your string tension data from? Is Dunlop publishing their tension numbers somewhere? Thanks.

 

[DECEMBER]

Just out of honest curiosity, where are you getting your string tension data from? Is Dunlop publishing their tension numbers somewhere? Thanks.

Stringjoy.com has a tension calculator. You can pick guitar or bass, number of strings, enter the scale length and what notes you're tuning to. I know it's probably not exactly the same because theirs are nickel-plated steel, but it's close enough, and is a good way to see the difference between gauges.

 

[Outshined91]

Reviving a dead thread because I am running into the same issue!! I have a short scale mustang and I want a very bright set that is great for drop D. I even ordered a custom set from Newtone Strings but it has been almost a month and they haven't even shipped yet, so it doesn't seem very sustainable to make them my main string even if I do love them.

@DECEMBER have you had any luck finding a set that works for you in the past couple years?

 

[DECEMBER]

Reviving a dead thread because I am running into the same issue!! I have a short scale mustang and I want a very bright set that is great for drop D. I even ordered a custom set from Newtone Strings but it has been almost a month and they haven't even shipped yet, so it doesn't seem very sustainable to make them my main string even if I do love them.

@DECEMBER have you had any luck finding a set that works for you in the past couple years?

The 120 was way too much, so I got a custom set from Newtone, 44 64 84 108 along with a 146T for the dropped A on my 5 string and it was like $66 after a foreign transaction fee. The tension was right but they didn't stay bright very long. Not worth double the cost and delivery time for the minor difference in tension. The 108 was perfect, though. I think Stringjoy might have a 110 short scale. But the best way to go would probably be to do some research and find the 105-45 set that has the highest tension (every string brand/material is different).
I've since gone to a 32" Squier Classic Vibe Jaguar bass. Medium scale strings are even more rare than short scale, but with the extra 2", the 105 works for the low D. Ernie Ball has a 105 85 65 45 medium scale set, but they went dull within the first 24 hours. Could'a been a dud set. But Stringjoy also has the same set in medium scale, so I have that now, haven't put them on yet, so we'll see.
If I was still using the 30.3" mostly, I probably would just settle for the DR Hi Beams 105-45 set, because it gets too complicated and expensive to try to customize it. And after trying the 108, that's about as thick as it can be before you lose the growl.
But I'm also tuning to A=432Hz, which is about 1/3 of 1 semitone down from A=440Hz, which reduces the tension by about 1-2 lbs per string. At 440Hz, the 105 should be pretty close. But I think the perfect set for short scale drop-D would probably be 107 or 108, 83, 62, 42, but Newtone is probably the only option for something that specific.
If you like the Newtone set, you could order like 3 sets before you need them, that way you won't have to wait next time, and won't have to pay shipping for each set.