Short scale flats?

[calypsocoral302]

So I decided my next bass is probably going to be a shorty, as not having a shorty in my arsenal kind of feels like missing a food group. It's probably going to be an Epiphone Newport for now, though I definitely want to score a Guild Starfire at some point.

I want to string it up with flats, and I like some tension-- not a fan of light string guages, as a result. The styles of music covered will likely include Oldies & Classic Rock. Any recommendations?

 

[michael_t]

One thing to keep in mind is not all "short scale" basses actually take "short scale" strings, depending on the bridge design and installation method. Make sure to do some research on those specific basses you mentioned and find out what "winding length" (ball end to taper/silk) they require for a proper fit.

 

[Chris Laarman]

So I decided my next bass is probably going to be a shorty, as not having a shorty in my arsenal kind of feels like missing a food group. It's probably going to be an Epiphone Newport for now, though I definitely want to score a Guild Starfire at some point.

I want to string it up with flats, and I like some tension-- not a fan of light string guages, as a result. The styles of music covered will likely include Oldies & Classic Rock. Any recommendations?

Not a real recommendation:
I'm happy with my flat-wounds: probably Ernie Ball on my old Ibanez (and until recently on my old acoustic Eko), Dunlop on my acoustic Fender, Thomastik on my latest Harley Benton.
I have become willing to pay the high price for Thomastik strings (also for some guitars).
(The Fender is 32", the others 34".)

You may be able to find tensions listed on the product pages of the makers.

 

[HaphAsSard]

So I decided my next bass is probably going to be a shorty, as not having a shorty in my arsenal kind of feels like missing a food group. It's probably going to be an Epiphone Newport for now, though I definitely want to score a Guild Starfire at some point.

I want to string it up with flats, and I like some tension-- not a fan of light string guages, as a result. The styles of music covered will likely include Oldies & Classic Rock. Any recommendations?

The Guild Starfire (at least the model with the gimungous bridge plate, but I believe the one with the separate tailpiece is not too far off) measures 33.25" from ball-end anchoring to inner side of nut.
"Normal" short-scale flats (32" to 32.75" from ball-end to start of headstock-end silk) will be too short.
- DR Legend 'short-scale' flats are longer than most, with the low E's silk measuring 33" from the ball, and might fit if you shave the silk back a little bit, and/or if you leave it stretching for a week or so before letting it fall into the nut slot. Otherwise, you will need either
- "Beatlebass-scale" strings (33.25" ball to silk, made by Pyramid; La Bella BB sets are longer, at 34"),
- nominally 'medium-scale' strings, as made by most companies (34"-34.25" long full winding, with Rotosound and GHS being outliers at 35.25" and 35.5" respectively) or
- Thomastik-Infeld's odd 'short scale (32")' (also amounting to 35.5" ball to silk).

By eyeballing pictures of the Epiphone Newport reissue, I am of the opinion it could accommodate strings up to 34" or so, thus including regular shortie strings but excluding the longest offerings from the above list.

In other words, keep an eye on what can or cannot fit either instrument, especially if you decide to get something you can potentially move from one to the other.
___

In terms of tension, the La Bella Deep Talkin' Bass Flat (hexagonal core, stainless steel) 760FM-S should be the tightest in current production (49-109), followed by their 760FS-S (45-105) and 760FL-S (43-104). Dark, vintage tone.
The DR Legend (round core, steel) SFL-45 will probably feel about as tight as the FL-S. Also vintagey.
The Dunlop DBFS45105S (thin hex core, steel) should place after all these in terms of stiffness, and be more versatile as far as tone (less tubby-vintagey, at least when new).
The D'Addario Chromes ECB81S have thinner A and E strings, but are a stiff string overall. Even brighter out of the pack. Gibson flats are reportedly very similar to Chromes, so ditto for their SBG-FWSSM set.
The Ernie Ball Slinky Flatwound (aka "Cobalt flats") 2817 are 50-110, but flexible (so they should feel lighter than the heaviest La Bellas) and very bright. Possibly usable for oldies with a twist of the tone knob, but perhaps more so for classic rock.

Other brands make shortie flats, but they're more flexible (Thomastik JF324, 43-106), thinner (Pyramid Golds are 40-100, GHS Precision Flats are 45-95, Roto Jazz Flat 77 are 40-90, IIRC) or both.

 

[calypsocoral302]

The Guild Starfire (at least the model with the gimungous bridge plate, but I believe the one with the separate tailpiece is not too far off) measures 33.25" from ball-end anchoring to inner side of nut.
"Normal" short-scale flats (32" to 32.75" from ball-end to start of headstock-end silk) will be too short.
- DR Legend 'short-scale' flats are longer than most, with the low E's silk measuring 33" from the ball, and might fit if you shave the silk back a little bit, and/or if you leave it stretching for a week or so before letting it fall into the nut slot. Otherwise, you will need either
- "Beatlebass-scale" strings (33.25" ball to silk, made by Pyramid; La Bella BB sets are longer, at 34"),
- nominally 'medium-scale' strings, as made by most companies (34"-34.25" long full winding, with Rotosound and GHS being outliers at 35.25" and 35.5" respectively) or
- Thomastik-Infeld's odd 'short scale (32")' (also amounting to 35.5" ball to silk).

By eyeballing pictures of the Epiphone Newport reissue, I am of the opinion it could accommodate strings up to 34" or so, thus including regular shortie strings but excluding the longest offerings from the above list.

In other words, keep an eye on what can or cannot fit either instrument, especially if you decide to get something you can potentially move from one to the other.
___

In terms of tension, the La Bella Deep Talkin' Bass Flat (hexagonal core, stainless steel) 760FM-S should be the tightest in current production (49-109), followed by their 760FS-S (45-105) and 760FL-S (43-104). Dark, vintage tone.
The DR Legend (round core, steel) SFL-45 will probably feel about as tight as the FL-S. Also vintagey.
The Dunlop DBFS45105S (thin hex core, steel) should place after all these in terms of stiffness, and be more versatile as far as tone (less tubby-vintagey, at least when new).
The D'Addario Chromes ECB81S have thinner A and E strings, but are a stiff string overall. Even brighter out of the pack. Gibson flats are reportedly very similar to Chromes, so ditto for their SBG-FWSSM set.
The Ernie Ball Slinky Flatwound (aka "Cobalt flats") 2817 are 50-110, but flexible (so they should feel lighter than the heaviest La Bellas) and very bright. Possibly usable for oldies with a twist of the tone knob, but perhaps more so for classic rock.

Other brands make shortie flats, but they're more flexible (Thomastik JF324, 43-106), thinner (Pyramid Golds are 40-100, GHS Precision Flats are 45-95, Roto Jazz Flat 77 are 40-90, IIRC) or both.

This is solid info, thank you!

 

[TomB]

This is solid info, thank you!

Solid and accurate, in my growing experience with ss flats, I’d only add that Dunlop flats, though they mellow quite a bit in time, retain a high-mid characteristic much like the EB’s.

 

[Killing Floor]

I have LaBella DTF on a short and they are wonderful but for my others I use TI flats and they’re my favorite. But there is no best string and you should do yourself the favor of tying a few different sets.

And despite TB advice don’t be afraid to use longs if that’s all you have available. The silk wrap is just the label.

 

[HaphAsSard]

This is solid info, thank you!

No probbo.
If you do end up getting the Starfire, the ranking of flatwounds sets according to tension listed in my post above

In terms of tension, the La Bella Deep Talkin' Bass Flat (hexagonal core, stainless steel) 760FM-S should be the tightest in current production (49-109), followed by their 760FS-S (45-105) and 760FL-S (43-104). Dark, vintage tone.
The DR Legend (round core, steel) SFL-45 will probably feel about as tight as the FL-S. Also vintagey.
The Dunlop DBFS45105S (thin hex core, steel) should place after all these in terms of stiffness, and be more versatile as far as tone (less tubby-vintagey, at least when new).
The D'Addario Chromes ECB81S have thinner A and E strings, but are a stiff string overall. Even brighter out of the pack. Gibson flats are reportedly very similar to Chromes, so ditto for their SBG-FWSSM set.
The Ernie Ball Slinky Flatwound (aka "Cobalt flats") 2817 are 50-110, but flexible (so they should feel lighter than the heaviest La Bellas) and very bright. Possibly usable for oldies with a twist of the tone knob, but perhaps more so for classic rock.

Other brands make shortie flats, but they're more flexible (Thomastik JF324, 43-106), thinner (Pyramid Golds are 40-100, GHS Precision Flats are 45-95, Roto Jazz Flat 77 are 40-90, IIRC) or both.

needs to be converted to medium-scale product codes:
- La Bella 760FS-M (the FM and FL in medium-scale were discontinued a while ago)
- DR SFL-45 (as said, they make just the one set)
- Dunlop DBFS45105M
- D'Addario ECB81M (I'm afraid I don't know the winding length of Gibson flats: I'd be surprised if they were much longer than the usual 32"; they don't make medium-scale sets)
(Ernie Ball 2817 are in every likelihood 32.5" long ball to silk, like the other two short-scale - roundwound - sets EB makes. No medium-scale sets either.)

As regards the also-rans (again, I'm talking about how they rank tensionwise, not implying they're subpar strings in any other respect):
Thomastik-Infeld JF324 (again, they don't make them any shorter),
Pyramid Gold 640 (ditto),
GHS 3120,
Rotosound RS77M.

 

[REV]

There's a lot to consider with flat wound strings and probably more so with flat wounds for a short scale bass. There's tone, there's feel (tension) there's feel ( smoothness) and there's length (making sure the strings properly fit the bass). I really like the Chromes on my Hofner but a guitar player friend says I should try Pyramids. I have Fender flats on my Mustang bass and they are different than Chromes but they sound really good on the Mustang. I've tried several sets on the Mustang and I keep coming back to the Fender strings. Ultimately the bass chooses the strings.

 

[selowitch]

I also like LaBella DTFs. They feel good and sound good. The only negative is that they aren’t so great for slapping.

 

[Pilgrim]

So I decided my next bass is probably going to be a shorty, as not having a shorty in my arsenal kind of feels like missing a food group. It's probably going to be an Epiphone Newport for now, though I definitely want to score a Guild Starfire at some point.

I want to string it up with flats, and I like some tension-- not a fan of light string guages, as a result. The styles of music covered will likely include Oldies & Classic Rock. Any recommendations?

Go directly to Labella 760FL Deep talkin' Flats, light gauge. If you don't like light gauge, use the same strings but slightly heavier gauge.

That, my friend, is the sound of the 60's and 70's and the greatest hits of rock music. Labella Deep Talkin' flats are the solution. I bet I've had them on 20 basses. I currently have them on about 10 basses.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

Pyramid makes a Hofner set of short scale flats.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

I will strongly recommend that you try the Epi Newport bass before buying. And I mean testing the EXACT bass you are buying. I've seen mixed reviews so I won't rule out the possibility that there are some decent ones out there but the one I got was one of the worst basses I've ever laid my hands on. I won't go into all the details (I already did that in another thread) but the main issue was a completely useless weak sounding E-string (pickup issues) and severe fret buzz because the pickup was too close to the strings which caused a strong magnetic pull on the strings. The fretwork was horrible too but at least that was sorted out easily by levelling+crowning the frets. After a LOT of work I made the Newport into something halfway decent but I work at a guitar workshop. If I didn't have experience with repairing guitars it would have been firewood.

FWIW my favourite short scale flats BY FAR are Pyramid Golds. The winding length of these short scale sets is designed for short scale basses with a tailpiece (specifically Höfners) so they're comparable to medium scale from most (but not all) other brands. I haven't tried them on my Newport but I think they should work.

In the end I had to use D'Addario Chromes medium scale. I normally detest Chromes, they're too stiff and clanky sounding for my taste. But on the Newport they were the only strings I could find that were stiff enough to avoid severe fret buzz.

Horrible bass IMO and I know for certain that mine wasn't the only bad one. There are several other bad reviews out there. Such a huge disappointment after the brilliant Embassy Pro (well, apart from the huge batch of Embassy Pros where they had installed the bridge in the wrong position, which made them impossible to intonate... and Epiphone kept selling them long after they were aware of this issue... very poor!).

If you don't need the bridge pickup and want the mudbucker tone the Epi EB-0 is a far better bass. Basically the same bass with a different look but no bridge pickup.

 

[_One//Man//Mutiny_]

When you do get a Starfire, I wholehearted recommend DR Black Beauties, they absolutely make those basses SING!

 

[calypsocoral302]

I will strongly recommend that you try the Epi Newport bass before buying. And I mean testing the EXACT bass you are buying. I've seen mixed reviews so I won't rule out the possibility that there are some decent ones out there but the one I got was one of the worst basses I've ever laid my hands on. I won't go into all the details (I already did that in another thread) but the main issue was a completely useless weak sounding E-string (pickup issues) and severe fret buzz because the pickup was too close to the strings which caused a strong magnetic pull on the strings. The fretwork was horrible too but at least that was sorted out easily by levelling+crowning the frets. After a LOT of work I made the Newport into something halfway decent but I work at a guitar workshop. If I didn't have experience with repairing guitars it would have been firewood.

FWIW my favourite short scale flats BY FAR are Pyramid Golds. The winding length of these short scale sets is designed for short scale basses with a tailpiece (specifically Höfners) so they're comparable to medium scale from most (but not all) other brands. I haven't tried them on my Newport but I think they should work.

In the end I had to use D'Addario Chromes medium scale. I normally detest Chromes, they're too stiff and clanky sounding for my taste. But on the Newport they were the only strings I could find that were stiff enough to avoid severe fret buzz.

Horrible bass IMO and I know for certain that mine wasn't the only bad one. There are several other bad reviews out there. Such a huge disappointment after the brilliant Embassy Pro (well, apart from the huge batch of Embassy Pros where they had installed the bridge in the wrong position, which made them impossible to intonate... and Epiphone kept selling them long after they were aware of this issue... very poor!).

If you don't need the bridge pickup and want the mudbucker tone the Epi EB-0 is a far better bass. Basically the same bass with a different look but no bridge pickup.

Thanks for the info. I saw the reviews on Sweetwater were also rather hit-or-miss, but the majority of the "miss" reviews seemed to be within the first several months of production. I've noticed this with Epiphone in the last few years-- it seems to take a few months for them to iron the bugs out of a new model.

Something that may be of note-- Eastwood apparently makes a Newport bass now, as well, but only the single-pickup model. Since the ol' Mudbucker is the main reason I'm looking into getting such an instrument anyway, I might decide to go this route instead...

 

[Matt O]

My 2 shorties, Mustang and Höfner club, wear La Bella flats. So, that’s all I can recommend. They do the flat thing very well, so I’ve never looked elsewhere.

Also, if I were to choose, I would get the Eastwood Newport over the epi. It’s a batwing thing. I’d definitely change the tuners to open gear clovers though.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

Thanks for the info. I saw the reviews on Sweetwater were also rather hit-or-miss, but the majority of the "miss" reviews seemed to be within the first several months of production. I've noticed this with Epiphone in the last few years-- it seems to take a few months for them to iron the bugs out of a new model.

Something that may be of note-- Eastwood apparently makes a Newport bass now, as well, but only the single-pickup model. Since the ol' Mudbucker is the main reason I'm looking into getting such an instrument anyway, I might decide to go this route instead...

Yeah, there's absolutely a chance that Epiphone have sorted out the issues with the Newport but they do have a history of not doing factory recalls on faulty batches, like the Embassy Pro I mentioned. There could still be a lot of poor ones sitting at dealers/warehouses around the world. That's the reason I strongly advice you to try the EXACT bass you are buying.

The Eastwood looks really cool! Personally I was a bit puff off with the Eastwood brand when I realised their Classic 4 bass seems to be the exact same instrument as the Thomann/Harley Benton HB-60 model, which sells for about half as much as the Eastwood. Don't get me wrong, the Harley Benton HB-60 is a superb bass for the money! At least after it gets "the cheap bass treatment" (filing the nut slots, levelling/crowning the frets, full setup). But I'm not sure I would consider it good value at Eastwood's price. I haven't actually tried Eastwood's version though so I won't rule out the possibility that Eastwood have a tighter quality control. There have been reports of Harley Benton HB-60s with faulty electronics and other flaws. But I don't think there can be much doubt that these really are the exact same basses coming from the exact same factory in China. I do realize that Thomann can probably order much larger volumes and therefore keep their profit margins lower but that's a rather significant difference in retail price!

Anyway, if the mudbucker tone is what you're looking for, and you don't really need the bridge pickup, I still think you will get better value for your money with the Epi EB-0. This model has certainly gotten a lot better over the years. I got one in the late 90s and it was HORRIBLE. The new ones they sell today are MUCH better, in every possible way. In fact, I like the later version of the Epi EBs better than the current Gibson SG basses which don't actually have a sidewinder/mudbucker pickup but a standard humbucker. In some ways the Gibson SG basses are more like short scale T-birds (with a vastly different body shape of course) than EB reissues. Don't get me wrong, the Gibson SGs are very cool basses but if you want the mudbucker/EB-vibe the Epi is definitely the one to get. The SG basses don't really sound like EBs at all. The neck pickup on the SG is far less muddy, which can be good or bad, depending on what you're looking for.

Of course, vintage Gibson EB basses were actually different inside than any Epi EB "reissues". The pickups/wiring on vintage EBs are electronically different and even "muddier" but the Epi EB still nails the mudbucker vibe IMO.

In have no idea about the specs of the Eastwood pickups/electronics. Are they a true-to-vintage-specs EB reissue or is it more like the Epi EBs? I suspect the latter. The Eastwood LOOKS very cool though!!!

Back in the day the Newport basses were really just a differently shaped EB to allow Gibson to sell more basses. Gibson had an agreement with dealers that restricted the number of Gibson dealers in specific areas. So they started selling the EXACT same bass with a different body shape, under the Epi brand, to get around these restrictions. They have the same pickups, same hardware, manufactured in the same factory but with a different body shape and a different logo on the headstock.

 

[calypsocoral302]

Back in the day the Newport basses were really just a differently shaped EB to allow Gibson to sell more basses. Gibson had an agreement with dealers that restricted the number of Gibson dealers in specific areas. So they started selling the EXACT same bass with a different body shape, under the Epi brand, to get around these restrictions. They have the same pickups, same hardware, manufactured in the same factory but with a different body shape and a different logo on the headstock.

Yes-- if I remember right, that arrangement you mentioned was the reason for some of their more famous guitar models like the Sheridan, Riviera, and Casino...

 

[GIBrat51]

If you get the Guild Starfire? Yes, you will need "medium scale" strings (that pesky trapeze tailpiece). Mine wears GHS MS 3120 Precision Flats... The "short scale" TI's and Pyramids will probably fit it, too. A handful of "real" short scale strings may fit it, but.. not many. OTOH...
if you decide on the Newport? Then the short scale string world is your oyster...

 

[Rocket Queen]

So I decided my next bass is probably going to be a shorty, as not having a shorty in my arsenal kind of feels like missing a food group. It's probably going to be an Epiphone Newport for now, though I definitely want to score a Guild Starfire at some point.

I want to string it up with flats, and I like some tension-- not a fan of light string guages, as a result. The styles of music covered will likely include Oldies & Classic Rock. Any recommendations?

Best flatwound bass strings 2023: how to choose the right flatwounds for you