• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Short scale vs medium scale acoustic bass

Well, I ordered Fender CB-60SCE and now that this nasty flu has finally passed I had some time with it.

Nicely made, well built, plays as it should, nothing wrong with it. 30.5 in would have been nicer but 32in is not _too_ unwieldy. I certainly can live with this.

Except the stock phosphor bronze strings have too much treble and not enough bass especially if played with pick. Then again if played with thumb it actually sounds like I think a bass should sound. That actually might work for the project.

Any suggestions for strings ? Eventually those will need replacement anyway so...

Also - this might be something that "everyone" knows except me. Does this thing actually need a DI box when plugged to a mixer ? ...Works just fine with normal guitar amp. I do have a cheap transformer based DI already so might as well go with that if/when needed?
Your Fender has an active preamp, so the length of your cable and the input impedance of the mixer channel won't affect your signal as much a regular electric bass like a passive Jazz, or a Precision.

You'll find that it sounds much better through a PA than through a guitar amp. In my experience, ABG's sound better though a PA or some other sort of full-range/flat response system, than even a nice electric bass amp. This isn't the right application for an SVT!

You DI question has more to do with the stage setup, than the type of mixer. If you're in a small club with the mixer at the back and a passive snake extending up to the stage, the stage connections will all be XLR, and you'll need use a venue-priovided DI, or your own. I always carry my JDI as a backup.

Since you've already got a DI, I would stuff it in your gig bag for safety.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HvyBlvy
Given that you understand that an ABG will need to be amplified in this setting, I think you're on the right track.

A suggestion: a lot of people who are lukewarm about amplified ABG's have never heard a good one through the most suitable amplification. Going direct is a good option, and an FRFR speaker will reproduce the sound of your acoustic in a more natural way than most regular bass amps.

If playing in places where there's no AC power is important to you, the battery-powered options have improved in recent years. The Bose S1 Pro (first gen, or the new upgraded version are both good) is expensive for it's size, but the battery life is good enough for most gigs, and if you're just bringing your acoustic up to the same volume as unplugged acoustic guitars, it's more than powerful enough. The voicing is excellent for guitar-scale ABG's in particular, and I've gotten a lot of complements about mine.

You asked about the odd strings on the guitar-scale models. All the ones I've seen are equipped with excellent onboard electronics, for all the obvious reasons. These are the most common models:
  • Cordoba Mini II MH-E
  • Guild Jumbo Junior
  • Ibanez PNB14E (or the discontinued AVN1BE)
  • Martin 000CJR-10E (with cutaway) or DJR-10E (dreadnaught, no cutaway)
  • Ortega Traveler D-Walker
  • Taylor GS Mini Bass
Replacing the nylon-core strings with steel is not an option. The top thickness, bracing, and intonation are all designed around the nylon. Steel is too stiff to intonate well at these frequencies with such a short scale. Using steel on one of these will give you an odd tone and bad intonation. Depending on how the instrument is built, you could run into other problems, like not being able to get the right neck relief, or having issues with the top.

Given that you preferred the amplified tone of the Guild Jumbo Jr over the B240 (I'm with you!), you'll probably be best-satisfied with one of these basses specifically because of these strings- the tone is mellow and deeper than normal-sized ABG's, specifically because of the nylon rope inner core, and bronze or silver-wrap.

These are essentially slightly shorter, bass-oriented versions of the rope-core, wound strings on a classical guitar. D'Addario originally made the EXPPBB190GS set for Taylor, and now they offer a new XT formulation- the XTB3790GS. Most of the manufacturers listed above ship their basses with the D'Addarios.

Aquila offers the new 310U set. La Bella makes the CB-40BE's, which I've been gigging on my Ibanez and Guild guitar-scale acoustic basses for years. The price from Strings by Mail is noticeably lower than the D'Addarios, which is another plus for the slightly stiffer and bolder-sounding La Bellas.

Pyramid now offers a new set in their Pyramid Gold series, the 639 100. I'd be interested in trying them, but they're around sixty bucks a set!

Martin has their own string formulation, which may be part of the reason for the more mid-heavy tone and short sustain. I can't say for sure, but the strings may be why I'm not a fan of the new Martin basses. The first thing I would do if I had one of the Martins, would be to throw a set of La Bellas or D'Addarios on it.

No need to be nervous about the nylon-core strings- they come up to pitch much faster, and tuning is more stable than the synthetic rubber strings used on Ukulele basses. I find I don't have to change them as often as the steel-core strings on regular ABG's, which is nice.

However, you do have to be willing to slightly adapt your touch to the instrument. The string tension is noticeably lower than a steel-strung ABG, and you can feel the strings roll very slightly under your fingers- just like the difference between a regular acoustic guitar and a nylon-strung one.

Another useful adaptation, is to learn to create your fretting hand vibrato by shaking the string along its length- almost like a fretless bassist, instead of across the fret like most people do on a steel-strung fretted guitar or bass. This is optional, and takes a little getting used to, but it gives you a bigger, more romantic-sounding vibrato.

If you pluck too hard on the nylon-core strings, you'll overdrive them, and the natural tone of the instrument will be drowned out by fret rattle.

As long as you don't mind lightening up a little and letting the amp do the work, you'll be rewarded with a beautiful, rich tone that sits somewhere between an electric bass and an upright. It's very much it's own thing, with much more detail than the dull imitation of an upright that most thump that most Uke basses offer.

I normally gig with a Dingwall 5-string electric worth about $4K. Ironically, when I play my cheap Guild Jumbo Junior to accompany acoustic piano and guitars (especially with hand percussion), I actually get more compliments and questions about the Guild, than I do with my electric slab.
Great post! Another string option is Aquila copper spirals. I put some on my BG -29 and it was a noticeable improvement over the chromes that were in it. Very warm sounding. Not cheap, I got mine from Strings by Mail.
Andy
 
  • Like
Reactions: HvyBlvy
Any suggestions for strings ? Eventually those will need replacement anyway so...

String selection, especially in medium scale, especially in bronze or tapes, seems quite limited. I wish I had seen this thread before you made your purchase!

I found one way to make long scale strings fit on my medium scale acoustic bass guitar, and unlike with a solidbody, no one will ever see the janky solution 😏 if you can use my method or find some other way to make long scale strings work, that opens up your options considerably.
 
String selection, especially in medium scale, especially in bronze or tapes, seems quite limited. I wish I had seen this thread before you made your purchase!

I found one way to make long scale strings fit on my medium scale acoustic bass guitar, and unlike with a solidbody, no one will ever see the janky solution 😏 if you can use my method or find some other way to make long scale strings work, that opens up your options considerably.
For some reason, the link to your old post about using La Bella "dice" to make longer strings fit, isn't working.

Let's see if I can insert it here:

"I never did track down the adorable beads from the La Bella flatwounds I have on my classic rock bass and my fretless bass, but then it hit me: if I got a long scale 5-string set of La Bella roundwounds for this medium scale acoustic bass guitar, I could just use the beads that came with it to choke up on that big string. I tried it tonight, and it works! :thumbsup: Here’s how:

View attachment 4105200
View attachment 4105201
View attachment 4105203
View attachment 4105204

I think I detect a bit of rattle from the beads, so I might see if I can get away with using just one next time, but you see how perfectly this places the taper between the nut and the post. The rattle is negligible acoustically (assuming it’s even there; it’s no noisier than the bronze strings would be anyway), and the piezo pickup doesn’t reproduce it at all through an amplifier. I think I might go with another bronze set next, but I’m in no hurry to change strings again: if you think bent plate bridges are janky, I can tell you they’ve got nothing on bridge pins!"

You're the first person I've seen, who used multiple La Bella beads to "shorten" the string to prevent breakage at the peghead.

I've used them singly (and wooden beads stolen from my grandchildren) to create improvised ball ends on Classical style nylon-core strings that don't come with a BE.

If the rattle continues to cause problems, you could always try short pieces of aluminum or brass hobby tubing as spacers, instead of the beads. Because you can cut them to custom lengths, there shouldn't be any rattle- I've been doing it as a quick fix for regular solid-body basses for years, and never had a problem.
 
For some reason, the link to your old post about using La Bella "dice" to make longer strings fit, isn't working.

Let's see if I can insert it here:

"I never did track down the adorable beads from the La Bella flatwounds I have on my classic rock bass and my fretless bass, but then it hit me: if I got a long scale 5-string set of La Bella roundwounds for this medium scale acoustic bass guitar, I could just use the beads that came with it to choke up on that big string. I tried it tonight, and it works! :thumbsup: Here’s how:

View attachment 4105200
View attachment 4105201
View attachment 4105203
View attachment 4105204

I think I detect a bit of rattle from the beads, so I might see if I can get away with using just one next time, but you see how perfectly this places the taper between the nut and the post. The rattle is negligible acoustically (assuming it’s even there; it’s no noisier than the bronze strings would be anyway), and the piezo pickup doesn’t reproduce it at all through an amplifier. I think I might go with another bronze set next, but I’m in no hurry to change strings again: if you think bent plate bridges are janky, I can tell you they’ve got nothing on bridge pins!"

You're the first person I've seen, who used multiple La Bella beads to "shorten" the string to prevent breakage at the peghead.

I've used them singly (and wooden beads stolen from my grandchildren) to create improvised ball ends on Classical style nylon-core strings that don't come with a BE.

If the rattle continues to cause problems, you could always try short pieces of aluminum or brass hobby tubing as spacers, instead of the beads. Because you can cut them to custom lengths, there shouldn't be any rattle- I've been doing it as a quick fix for regular solid-body basses for years, and never had a problem.
Whatever rattle I had vanished when I got the next set (Rotosound bronze) on there 👍
 
  • Like
Reactions: HvyBlvy
For some reason, the link to your old post about using La Bella "dice" to make longer strings fit, isn't working.

Let's see if I can insert it here:

"I never did track down the adorable beads from the La Bella flatwounds I have on my classic rock bass and my fretless bass, but then it hit me: if I got a long scale 5-string set of La Bella roundwounds for this medium scale acoustic bass guitar, I could just use the beads that came with it to choke up on that big string. I tried it tonight, and it works! :thumbsup: Here’s how:

View attachment 4105200
View attachment 4105201
View attachment 4105203
View attachment 4105204

I think I detect a bit of rattle from the beads, so I might see if I can get away with using just one next time, but you see how perfectly this places the taper between the nut and the post. The rattle is negligible acoustically (assuming it’s even there; it’s no noisier than the bronze strings would be anyway), and the piezo pickup doesn’t reproduce it at all through an amplifier. I think I might go with another bronze set next, but I’m in no hurry to change strings again: if you think bent plate bridges are janky, I can tell you they’ve got nothing on bridge pins!"

You're the first person I've seen, who used multiple La Bella beads to "shorten" the string to prevent breakage at the peghead.

I've used them singly (and wooden beads stolen from my grandchildren) to create improvised ball ends on Classical style nylon-core strings that don't come with a BE.

If the rattle continues to cause problems, you could always try short pieces of aluminum or brass hobby tubing as spacers, instead of the beads. Because you can cut them to custom lengths, there shouldn't be any rattle- I've been doing it as a quick fix for regular solid-body basses for years, and never had a problem.
Let’s try that again: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/nb...-quarter-century.1491311/page-2#post-24789520
 
  • Like
Reactions: steve_rolfeca
I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to weigh in.

I hgave a 32" scale 5 string ABG E-C. Mine was made by the wonderful @Steve Burke . One caveat, t's built with a patented Ovaldi Linden "bass resonator" Here is a video if it being played.

Anyway I have onlty used Labella Black Tapes on her. At first the E string was kind of weak but thanks to @Karl Kaminski we changed the bridge, raised teh action and made a couple tweaqks and now it's great. This was in 2022.

Cut to now, after a couple years of playing and the putting the Tone Traveler on it, I feel the instrument is breaking-in. The Low E string is is tight, well defined and projects wonderfully. That's my $0.02 FWIW.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Steve Burke