Believe it or not, Your drummer is doing you a favor. In the final analysis you must be your own time keeper! He is forcing you to carry your own weight. You may curse it now but you'll be thankful later!
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Should a drummer be expected to count back in after a pause?
- Thread starter prater
- Start date
I don't mean to be disagreeable, but this is very bad advice. The bassist and drummer don't need to be competing for click accuracy.
1. You should work on it.
2. All your bandmates, including the drummer, should do whatever is necessary to ensure a tight performance.
I completely advocate learning better time, but I still don't feel I understand the specific situation here;
Are we talking planned rests that are rehearsed as part of the song that you aren't 'keeping up' with, or pauses initiated by the drummer for an undetermined length that you're not sure when he's going to come back in on?
If it's the first one, absolutely, practice your ass off, you'll get it. If it's the latter, that just sounds like self-indulgent drumming.
Are we talking planned rests that are rehearsed as part of the song that you aren't 'keeping up' with, or pauses initiated by the drummer for an undetermined length that you're not sure when he's going to come back in on?
If it's the first one, absolutely, practice your ass off, you'll get it. If it's the latter, that just sounds like self-indulgent drumming.
+1000
The drummer sounds like an asshat. The OP does need to learn to count but meantime, the drummer could give visual cues such as mouthing 1, 2, ,3 , 4 or something similar. The point is to sound tight and if one member needs a little help, he should get it.
To the OP, why are you not listening to the bass drum? I'm not saying the high-hat is irrelevant, but I would focus more on the bass drum, especially if the drummer doesn't use the high-hat much.
Use the Chuck Berry method...
If you are playing when I stomp my foot, stop.
If you are not playing when I stomp my foot, start.
Seriously though, many moons ago a drummer friend of mine invited me to a drum clinic at a local music store and the thing I took away from that clinic is the importance of counting. I forced myself to do it and it made a HUGE difference in my ability to not just keep up, but it was critical to improving my ability to come in properly from a rest.
Something else that really helps me is keeping in good visual contact with my band mates. I've played plenty of jobs where I met my fellow band members an hour prior to starting the show. On those occasions it was crucial for us to cue each other for stops and rests.
The band I'm currently playing in will work out where guitar solos will go in a song, but we never work on how long that solo will be. Instead, the soloist will give us a visual cue when they are ready to exit the solo and we just jump back in at the next chord change. For rests we count them (silently) and just fall on them as required. After a couple runs through a tune I usually just go by feel on rests, but I'm always backing myself up by keeping an eye on my drummer.
If you are playing when I stomp my foot, stop.
If you are not playing when I stomp my foot, start.
Seriously though, many moons ago a drummer friend of mine invited me to a drum clinic at a local music store and the thing I took away from that clinic is the importance of counting. I forced myself to do it and it made a HUGE difference in my ability to not just keep up, but it was critical to improving my ability to come in properly from a rest.
Something else that really helps me is keeping in good visual contact with my band mates. I've played plenty of jobs where I met my fellow band members an hour prior to starting the show. On those occasions it was crucial for us to cue each other for stops and rests.
The band I'm currently playing in will work out where guitar solos will go in a song, but we never work on how long that solo will be. Instead, the soloist will give us a visual cue when they are ready to exit the solo and we just jump back in at the next chord change. For rests we count them (silently) and just fall on them as required. After a couple runs through a tune I usually just go by feel on rests, but I'm always backing myself up by keeping an eye on my drummer.
I count when I can. There are some songs where the drummer wants to be dramatic, and he may extend the rest, based on the moment. I should be against this, but I am not. He is going to hold his stick up really high, and I have plenty of visual cue to when we're coming back in, and we are going to land together every time.
This all takes a bit of practice, but it's well worth it. Nothing I hate worse than the drummer clicking us out of a rest, where there shouldn't be anything. Silence, followed by the whole band hitting together is one of the great things in music. Enjoy it!
This all takes a bit of practice, but it's well worth it. Nothing I hate worse than the drummer clicking us out of a rest, where there shouldn't be anything. Silence, followed by the whole band hitting together is one of the great things in music. Enjoy it!
I want to add, those who are saying use your foot or body in the counting are offering valuable advise. The more you involve your body in your playing, the better you look onstage, and the more in touch you are with the music. I try to almost do interpretive dance, in a manner of speaking where certain passages of certain songs provoke certain movements, every time we play them. I can always change them up, but there is a basis now, and less looking uncertain onstage. Tapping your foot is a great start. I count out loud sometimes too, away from mics, and very quietly. I not only count beats, I also count measures, in the case of longer instrumental sections, where there is no vocal to guide me. I play a number of different instruments, and I have a lot to keep track of. I try to use every trick I can to be a better player.
Nothing wrong with a (silent) visual cue on a tough passage. Could be something as simple as a subtle nod, or an eyebrow lift. I see no problem helping a band member a tad, if needed.
If I have to choose between:
A. a beautiful rest ruined by a single click before the band comes in
B. A beautiful, perfect rest without a single click, with the following entry ruined by various band members losing the count
I'll choose A every time.
A. a beautiful rest ruined by a single click before the band comes in
B. A beautiful, perfect rest without a single click, with the following entry ruined by various band members losing the count
I'll choose A every time.
Hi.
I guess he's a bit more experienced than You are ATM, recognises your potential and trying to help you to get there.
His "teaching" method may not be to your liking, but it still does sound effective since you have noticed a forced improvement on your time keeping.
He (or You
) would probably be out of the band if he didn't believe that you have what it takes to learn to keep the beat.
At all times.
I'd count a band member like that a blessing rather than a curse.
Depends on the type of music of course, but IMO as long as it's even or odd measure, it shouldn't matter what You play, as long as it's in even or odd, respectively of course again.
Got to be in the correct key of course as well, but that's another subject.
C. being in a band that actually rehearses and/or can keep the beat and deliver the entertainment I guess.
Or another band.
Even as a hack hobbyist in mediocre bands, those options A & B aren't even options for me live.
Except for the sit-in or sub gigs and gigs with inadequate stage sound, I also find it utterly annoying to watch when band members constantly keep looking at eachother for clues on what to do next.
More often than not, it means turning ones back on the audience and there's not many things in my book that look less professional.
In my humble opinion at least.
Regards
Sam
I guess he's a bit more experienced than You are ATM, recognises your potential and trying to help you to get there.
His "teaching" method may not be to your liking, but it still does sound effective since you have noticed a forced improvement on your time keeping.
He (or You
) would probably be out of the band if he didn't believe that you have what it takes to learn to keep the beat.At all times.
I'd count a band member like that a blessing rather than a curse.
Depends on the type of music of course, but IMO as long as it's even or odd measure, it shouldn't matter what You play, as long as it's in even or odd, respectively of course again.
Got to be in the correct key of course as well, but that's another subject.
I'd rather choose C.
C. being in a band that actually rehearses and/or can keep the beat and deliver the entertainment I guess.
Or another band
.Even as a hack hobbyist in mediocre bands, those options A & B aren't even options for me live.
Except for the sit-in or sub gigs and gigs with inadequate stage sound, I also find it utterly annoying to watch when band members constantly keep looking at eachother for clues on what to do next.
More often than not, it means turning ones back on the audience and there's not many things in my book that look less professional.
In my humble opinion at least.
Regards
Sam
If it's temporary he should give you what you need but it's on you to practice it at home until you nail it. Years ago we were doing a new song that had a tricky intro. It started on the "and" of one and the rest would start on the two a bar later, repeating 3 times before the band kicked in. I was the guitard and did the intro solo and I couldn't get it to save my life. I'm ashamed to say the drummer had to click quarter notes and give me a big accent on when to come in. It saved the song. Needless to say I went home and played it a million times until it was second nature and aced it next time we played it.
C. being in a band that actually rehearses and/or can keep the beat and deliver the entertainment I guess.
Or another band
Oh, agreed. That's why I said if I *have* to choose...!
It was just so he'd know when to come back in. But in all situations where I have recorded with a click, I and everyone else in the band got the click in our monitors. Every time. There is no competition about where the click is, it is where it is, and that's all there is to it.
