Should I stay or should I go?

[Admiral Akbar]

You asked what we would do. So, here's what my thinking is:

At this point, I wouldn't care if they gave me creative input or not. I do everything I do (free gigging and recording) and they treat me like a pariah. Well, they can go out and find someone who does what I do under the same circumstances.

I'm not saying to put on a drama play, but I would let them know in a nice, calm discussion, why I'm leaving (which might help them treat a future bass player better and by doing so, you'd be helping them).

I would say I'm available to sub for paid gigs and let them know what my studio rate per hour is.

Actually, I need to add to this:

ANY recording situation I go into includes a contract or some pretty big up-front money.

Just imagine: you've done all this recording. They release the record and by some miracle, it "takes off". What do you have that insures you get something for your effort?

Nah, this is a bad situation from where I'm looking.

Excellent advice, thank you!

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

Excellent advice, thank you!

Two names: "Bob Daisley" and "Sharon Osbourne".

 

[Admiral Akbar]

Talk more. If not everybody is happy with the idea and you just decide to do it anyways, there's no way you'll just get away with it. Anything could happen and when you enjoy playing with these guys, then you should probably try to be peaceful and act kind. Doesn't matter if someone else is mean to you, you should still be kind to everybody else. That way you cannot be at fault and situations like these would never happen.
If you then decide you want to do something different and they won't help you with it, then you have to do your own project.
However, chances are you're not gonna be particularly successful as a bass player with slide. Might sound nice to you, maybe to some other bass players and musicians, but most people don't want to listen to that sort of stuff.

I get it. Slide bass won’t work in an Abba or Earth Wind and Fire tribute band, nor for 99.8% of gigs, but I thought it would be cool to try on this one particular line (that sounds very reminiscent of Cure bassline, Fascination Street, actually). Artistically, it was a valid choice. Timing-wise, maybe should have let him get used to it in rehearsal. But playing completely pro bono and stifled creatively up until that point, I couldn’t take it anymore.

 

[Admiral Akbar]

Two names: "Bob Daisley" and "Sharon Osbourne".

I’m a big fan of Bob Daisley’s playing. Awesome sound and presence!

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

I’m a big fan of Bob Daisley’s playing. Awesome sound and presence!

Yeah. He got Jobbed by Sharon, but as time goes on, more and more stories emerge about how a lot of Ozzy's musician were promised a gold mine, but only got the shaft.

 

[mrcbass]

This doesn't sound like a situation I'd prioritize. "Hang" seems to be the only thing you have in this, which is fine if you're happy. But you don't seem to be happy.

 

[Admiral Akbar]

Yeah. He got Jobbed by Sharon, but as time goes on, more and more stories emerge about how a lot of Ozzy's musician were promised a gold mine, but only got the shaft.

That’s too bad, I did not know this. I guess it’s “just business” in the end, isn’t it?

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

That’s too bad, I did not know this. I guess it’s “just business” in the end, isn’t it?

Not the way Sharon did it. She's left quite a wide wake of shady business dealings over the years. Do a search: "Which of Ozzy's musicians ddid Sharon screw out of writing credits?"

Here's the thing: if you're going into the studio and they have a song for you but the song has no bass lines ... they don't give you an idea for a bass line ... they just play the song and say: "Do what you can with it", you are writing the bass lines.

I have a guitar player I haven't talked to in 30 years who's still getting royalties because he gave me one chord (which I used) for one song and I insisted he get a credit on the song. The percentage is minimal, but so was his actual contribution to the song.

Maybe you feel differently, but I have been honing what I do for 40 years. I understand compassion and not being "cold-blooded", but I would never go into a situation where other people are getting paid (presumably partially for my contributions) and I'm not. Fair is fair.

 

[Anthony Fury]

Next day, the guitarist who did not want me to try the slide on the gig called it “sloppy and messy”. That said; he’s the least experienced musician in the group, and plays like it.

I’ve been in bands with task-manager poopie dicks like this. They have day jobs as middle/project management and ZERO creative ability. They own primo gear, probably book shows / organize practices and have plenty to say about your playing and/or tone, but they don’t understand basic chord structures, changes or even the names of notes. If you think they might eventually come around one day, I have news for you: they won’t.

shag that guy. Quit immediately and start a band called “(That guy’s full legal name) Sucks.”

 

[Admiral Akbar]

Not the way Sharon did it. She's left quite a wide wake of shady business dealings over the years. Do a search: "Which of Ozzy's musicians ddid Sharon screw out of writing credits?"

Here's the thing: if you're going into the studio and they have a song for you but the song has no bass lines ... they don't give you an idea for a bass line ... they just play the song and say: "Do what you can with it", you are writing the bass lines.

I have a guitar player I haven't talked to in 30 years who's still getting royalties because he gave me one chord (which I used) for one song and I insisted he get a credit on the song. The percentage is minimal, but so was his actual contribution to the song.

Maybe you feel differently, but I have been honing what I do for 40 years. I understand compassion and not being "cold-blooded", but I would never go into a situation where other people are getting paid (presumably partially for my contributions) and I'm not. Fair is fair.

Great point. My quote about “just business” did not imply it was fair or that I agree with it. Quite the opposite actually! That said, if anyone contributed anything to something I did that took off and garnered critical and/or financial acclaim, I’d absolutely want to see them recognized and compensated accordingly. I’d sleep a lot easier at night knowing that!

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

Great point. My quote about “just business” did not imply it was fair or that I agree with it. Quite the opposite actually! That said, if anyone contributed anything to something I did that took off and garnered critical and/or financial acclaim, I’d absolutely want to see them recognized and compensated accordingly. I’d sleep a lot easier at night knowing that!

As would I, but your band mates might not be as morally advanced as you or I. Unfortunately, I have come to believe people (in general) will do just enough to make sure their life doesn't blow up on them.

Who cares if you get hosed out of just a couple of hundred dollars? Presumably, you do. Now, answer this: "Do you believe they care if you see a dime?"

 

[KidAmnesia]

I don’t blame him at all for being upset. I just wish he had been cooler with asking me to hold off on the technique, rather than telling me flat out “no”. Secondly, and worse, his response calling it “messy” was condescending. There were a lot worse things than somebody trying slide on that gig to call “messy”, starting with his own performance, to be fair.

Mistakes happen, they are not intentional and people try to get back on track; it sucks, but can happen to anyone. Deliberately playing something entirely different from what you had rehearsed is not the same in my book. And if I had been asked about it and had said I didn't feel confortable with it but you end up doing it anyway, I'd take that personal.

You are not getting paid, so you can do whatever you want, play with a slide, do a 10 minute slap solo, walk out of the stage mid song... But don't ask for approval if you are going to do it no matter what.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with you on this one. To me, it sounds like you are looking for an excuse to leave that band. And you don't need one, you are free to go whenever you feel like it.

 

[Jason Sypher]

I think I’d sit tight. I don’t hear that you absolutely hate this group which is the only time I really bail on something. Musical groups are always minefields of preferences, egos, insecurities. I don’t play in very many bands that don’t have issues of some sort. I’ve always taken being denied playing something as an opportunity to convince a naysayer that what I’ve got is good. Those members that don’t get your ideas can be useful to your craft. Keep honing, perfecting the part you want to play. So many of my most personal and most musical playing never sees the light outside my practice room. People don’t really see the bass as a creative expressive instrument in general. The more unorthodox, the more resistance. But if you take that resistance into the practice room and use it as fuel it can be very useful. Understand that you might have to “sell it” for awhile until the deaf ears come around. I’ve been bowing fiddle tunes on the upright bass for ten years and only now are peoples jaws beginning to drop. Yesterday a guy who looked like someone who would definitely not get it exclaimed in the middle of a tune I started “wow, what a gorgeous sound”. He was an old fiddler and the truth was, I’m a better fiddler on the bass than he is on the fiddle! Just keep searching for sounds you like, bass parts that express who you are, but don’t forget that outside a solo album you are going to to have to sell it to critics, will have to prove it in the context of wherever you find yourself and that is a necessary skill.

 

[4stringfarley]

more and more stories emerge about how a lot of Ozzy's musician were promised a gold mine, but only got the shaft.

have to read the fine print. You might get the gold mine, but only after the gold is gone.

 

[Admiral Akbar]

Mistakes happen, they are not intentional and people try to get back on track; it sucks, but can happen to anyone. Deliberately playing something entirely different from what you had rehearsed is not the same in my book. And if I had been asked about it and had said I didn't feel confortable with it but you end up doing it anyway, I'd take that personal.

You are not getting paid, so you can do whatever you want, play with a slide, do a 10 minute slap solo, walk out of the stage mid song... But don't ask for approval if you are going to do it no matter what.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with you on this one. To me, it sounds like you are looking for an excuse to leave that band. And you don't need one, you are free to go whenever you feel like it.

Part was the same, just played with a slide on the left hand. The timbre changed (less point on the attack) but that’s it. Timbre can change just as much from changing from plectrum to fingers and back again. Or even using a completely different bass other than the one you’ve always used. Notes didn’t change, timbre did. I also didn’t ask to play slide - I merely sent the band a text that I might try it ‘cause I thought it sounded good. What turned me off was the pushback I got from one of the guys (the least experienced) was just so firm, final, and suffocating.

 

[DaveParker39]

So, I played a gig with an originals band whom I’ve been playing with for about 4 years. We probably do about 3 or 4 gigs a year and have recorded an album and EP of original tunes. My role as bassist is to supply basslines to the tunes—I am not paid to do this, nor are any of my ideas for original tunes entertained. Im completely a “hired gun”, as is another band member. We play with these guys because we enjoy the hang.

Here’s the catch: we played a 30 minute (free) show with 3 other bands over the weekend. Prior to the show, I had indicated I’d like to try one of my basslines with a slide (a la Morphine) - it sounded cool in my woodshed and thought it might be nice to try with the band. Well, many of the band members liked the idea, but another stated he’d rather me try things in the studio. Understandable.

Anyway, the gig happens, some of the band members with less gigging experience were nervous, and the mistakes started to happen. Well, the song comes up, I play it with the slide, it sounds ok.

Next day, the guitarist who did not want me to try the slide on the gig called it “sloppy and messy”. That said; he’s the least experienced musician in the group, and plays like it.

I’m reconsidering whether I want to continue on with this band where I have no songwriting input, and then any playing input seems to be “controlled”. I’m not paid to replicate parts, so I’d like more creative leeway than what I’ve been getting. What would you guys do?

Given that it doesn’t sound fun and there’s no upside financially, I’d step back/out myself. But that’s me.

 

[Admiral Akbar]

I think I’d sit tight. I don’t hear that you absolutely hate this group which is the only time I really bail on something. Musical groups are always minefields of preferences, egos, insecurities. I don’t play in very many bands that don’t have issues of some sort. I’ve always taken being denied playing something as an opportunity to convince a naysayer that what I’ve got is good. Those members that don’t get your ideas can be useful to your craft. Keep honing, perfecting the part you want to play. So many of my most personal and most musical playing never sees the light outside my practice room. People don’t really see the bass as a creative expressive instrument in general. The more unorthodox, the more resistance. But if you take that resistance into the practice room and use it as fuel it can be very useful. Understand that you might have to “sell it” for awhile until the deaf ears come around. I’ve been bowing fiddle tunes on the upright bass for ten years and only now are peoples jaws beginning to drop. Yesterday a guy who looked like someone who would definitely not get it exclaimed in the middle of a tune I started “wow, what a gorgeous sound”. He was an old fiddler and the truth was, I’m a better fiddler on the bass than he is on the fiddle! Just keep searching for sounds you like, bass parts that express who you are, but don’t forget that outside a solo album you are going to to have to sell it to critics, will have to prove it in the context of wherever you find yourself and that is a necessary skill.

Thanks @Jason Sypher ! Leave it to the fellow upright bassist to completely get where I’m coming from with the slide. As long as I’m in that band, the slide will remain on that song - I’ll continue to make it work better. Thank you again!

 

[Pings Bass]

I am not paid to do this,

Im completely a “hired gun”,

Okay...

If you're not getting paid, and you're not playing the music you want to play and you're not having fun, what are you in it for?

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

Okay...

If you're not getting paid, and you're not playing the music you want to play and you're not having fun, what are you in it for?

"Any guy who tells you he plays in a band to add to the musical integrity of mankind is full of it. It's the chicks!" ... Gene Simmons

 

[Chicken Wing]

Run!!!