Should I stay or should I go?

[BBQisgood]

So, I played a gig with an originals band whom I’ve been playing with for about 4 years. We probably do about 3 or 4 gigs a year and have recorded an album and EP of original tunes. My role as bassist is to supply basslines to the tunes—I am not paid to do this, nor are any of my ideas for original tunes entertained. Im completely a “hired gun”, as is another band member. We play with these guys because we enjoy the hang.

Here’s the catch: we played a 30 minute (free) show with 3 other bands over the weekend. Prior to the show, I had indicated I’d like to try one of my basslines with a slide (a la Morphine) - it sounded cool in my woodshed and thought it might be nice to try with the band. Well, many of the band members liked the idea, but another stated he’d rather me try things in the studio. Understandable.

Anyway, the gig happens, some of the band members with less gigging experience were nervous, and the mistakes started to happen. Well, the song comes up, I play it with the slide, it sounds ok.

Next day, the guitarist who did not want me to try the slide on the gig called it “sloppy and messy”. That said; he’s the least experienced musician in the group, and plays like it.

I’m reconsidering whether I want to continue on with this band where I have no songwriting input, and then any playing input seems to be “controlled”. I’m not paid to replicate parts, so I’d like more creative leeway than what I’ve been getting. What would you guys do?

It’s a trap.



Bug out.

 

[DrThumpenstein]

Our job is to help hold things together, not throw things off. Sounds like using the slide after saying you wouldn't may have thrown him off. Even if that wasn't the only problem, if he's already struggling, it can't help.

For me, the whole thing would hinge on how respectfully/disrespectfully he approached me. If he's disrespectful, it's not my kind of hang. But that can be addressed with mature discussion.

You're given an opportunity to step back and evaluate your participation, and that's never a bad idea. Whether to stay or go should boil down to how vested you are in continuing.

 

[mdogs]

A "hired gun" that plays for free? Do what you want!

I haven’t read the entire thread, but a “hired hand” gets paid for his job. Don’t take this the wrong way, but you are not a hired hand, you are their *****.

 

[Fynn]

Talk more. If not everybody is happy with the idea and you just decide to do it anyways, there's no way you'll just get away with it. Anything could happen and when you enjoy playing with these guys, then you should probably try to be peaceful and act kind. Doesn't matter if someone else is mean to you, you should still be kind to everybody else. That way you cannot be at fault and situations like these would never happen.
If you then decide you want to do something different and they won't help you with it, then you have to do your own project.
However, chances are you're not gonna be particularly successful as a bass player with slide. Might sound nice to you, maybe to some other bass players and musicians, but most people don't want to listen to that sort of stuff.

 

[Admiral Akbar]

I have no way of knowing exactly what you agreed to when you joined these people, but if I were brought in as a “hired gun” and we played a gig and they didn’t pay me, I wouldn’t be their “hired gun” anymore. Creative input wouldn’t even be a thought.

Did you kick in any money for the production of the album and EP?

@Shepsdad I was brought in to help record bass tracks, as their bass cat at the time wasn’t cutting it. The tracks went very smoothly, but just about every gig (there haven’t been many), the drummer drops beats or misses fills, and the next weakest member, this guitarist who openly called my slide bass “messy” then stiffens up and starts making mistakes… I was not going to play slide, but decided to do it at the last minute to try and “loosen” people up—for exactly the same reasons many posters here said they’d play solid bass. Band needed a kick in the butt!

 

[Admiral Akbar]

I haven’t read the entire thread, but a “hired hand” gets paid for his job. Don’t take this the wrong way, but you are not a hired hand, you are their *****.

The keyboardist and I are self-described total musical whores. If there’s game, we are playing. We’ve also said we are their ***** - just as you did!

 

[Admiral Akbar]

If the thing was wonky before you added your touch, he's using that as an excuse to focus blame on you so he does not have to admit his (or the others) sloppy input.

That’s exactly what he has done. No mention of the drummer dropping an opening fill in the very first verse of the very first tune (and how I settled him down by pumping eighth notes…)

 

[Admiral Akbar]

If I was in a band that only played 4 times a year, I would absolutely get into another band or two. That is simply not enough gigging for me.

Everything else would become more clear with a broader gigging perspective.

I’m actually in 3 others. Rock covers, soul covers, and jazz, my main thing.

 

[Admiral Akbar]

Absolutely. Getting outside perspective is always great… *usually great. Not always. Depends on who you ask.

I also think a lot of that uncertainty and need to check with others is a whirlwind of psychological and societal forces at play, when the truth is often you know what the best course of action for you is but we’re made to believe doing things for our own benefit is somehow bad, or selfish, or a bunch of other things that we’re not supposed to be or do, and then we need to somehow justify our decision by consensus of our peers. But we don’t need other people to justify our needs! We already know.

And we’re all guilty of this. I didn’t say that sentence as a derogatory accusation. I said it as someone who is aware that he does it himself. It’s just easier to see it when other people ask.

This is exactly it. I know I should quit. What holds me back is I enjoy being around other musicians and contributing. But this latest incident - where my slide playing on one was called out, yet nothing else was despite the trainwreck that was occurring has made me consider this “band” isn’t for me.

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

You asked what we would do. So, here's what my thinking is:

At this point, I wouldn't care if they gave me creative input or not. I do everything I do (free gigging and recording) and they treat me like a pariah. Well, they can go out and find someone who does what I do under the same circumstances.

I'm not saying to put on a drama play, but I would let them know in a nice, calm discussion, why I'm leaving (which might help them treat a future bass player better and by doing so, you'd be helping them).

I would say I'm available to sub for paid gigs and let them know what my studio rate per hour is.

Actually, I need to add to this:

ANY recording situation I go into includes a contract or some pretty big up-front money.

Just imagine: you've done all this recording. They release the record and by some miracle, it "takes off". What do you have that insures you get something for your effort?

Nah, this is a bad situation from where I'm looking.

 

[IamGroot]

A "hired gun" that plays for free? Do what you want!

There are always those that give it away for free.

If you are a PAID professional hired gun, you do exactly what they ask. And if they pay you enough, you tell them you really like it and would like to do it again.

 

[Admiral Akbar]

I find such posts as yours perplexing. You are closest to the situation. Why not discuss “how you feel” with your band?

Because I’m not sure what I feel, and sometimes it’s cool to reach back into the “collective” of peers whom have had similar experiences and get some perspective. My brain says “quit”, heart says “don’t be a quitter”. It’s cut and dry for you @Topkat13 as you are removed from the situation and the emotional attachment to these dudes.

 

[Admiral Akbar]

+1 for Morphine.

Right on, dude!

I love that band’s music so much.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

So, I played a gig with an originals band whom I’ve been playing with for about 4 years. We probably do about 3 or 4 gigs a year and have recorded an album and EP of original tunes. My role as bassist is to supply basslines to the tunes—I am not paid to do this, nor are any of my ideas for original tunes entertained. Im completely a “hired gun”, as is another band member. We play with these guys because we enjoy the hang.

Here’s the catch: we played a 30 minute (free) show with 3 other bands over the weekend. Prior to the show, I had indicated I’d like to try one of my basslines with a slide (a la Morphine) - it sounded cool in my woodshed and thought it might be nice to try with the band. Well, many of the band members liked the idea, but another stated he’d rather me try things in the studio. Understandable.

Anyway, the gig happens, some of the band members with less gigging experience were nervous, and the mistakes started to happen. Well, the song comes up, I play it with the slide, it sounds ok.

Next day, the guitarist who did not want me to try the slide on the gig called it “sloppy and messy”. That said; he’s the least experienced musician in the group, and plays like it.

I’m reconsidering whether I want to continue on with this band where I have no songwriting input, and then any playing input seems to be “controlled”. I’m not paid to replicate parts, so I’d like more creative leeway than what I’ve been getting. What would you guys do?

I’m confused. You’re a hired gun that doesn’t get paid? You are recording with them. Are they giving you charts a recording to follow, or do you come up with your parts? You later say that you are not paid to replicate parts, but it sounds like you aren’t getting paid for anything.

My thought on the deal is your mates are taking advantage of you. I find it very hard to believe you are this involved without them using your intellectual property. Further, in regard to recording, you deserved to be compensated. Either by a fee for the studio time which is fine if you are replicating existing parts, or they owe you a piece of the profits from sales.

My band situation is a good deal different. I don’t make much money but the hang is really good. It’s also a 57 year old institution. Frankly, at my age if I break even on expenses, I’m thrilled. I’m also fairly certain at our age the likelihood we put out a gold record is about slim and nil. That said, our material is published, we have a record deal, and we are given performance and or writing credits.

The only thing I want credit for is my work on bass. We do our on recording, engineering, and mastering. We’ve released 3 LPs in the last 2.5 years, another one is in the can waiting on artwork, and we have a Christmas LP that is about 2 songs short.

 

[Admiral Akbar]

Playing in an original band, particularly an inexperienced one, you have to get out there by playing free gigs to get out there and hopefully get enough people liking you to start getting paid.

Experimenting on stage with something that sounded good in your woodshed is a massive no-go. Rehearsal is for fleshing this out, not in front of people that may one day be looking for an original band to pay.

If the boat starts taking on water during the show, don’t get upset because you were chastised for drilling more holes in the bottom.

You make total sense. Unfortunately the boat took on PLENTY of water prior to the slide thing. I think at that point, the slide came out because I was tired of the nervous train wrecks at the hands of the inexperienced players whom actually have a disproportionately large say in the creative aspects. I was TOLD not to play the slide — I NEVER agreed not to play slide. it actually sounded better than “messy”, imo.

 

[Admiral Akbar]

A couple of thoughts.

Do you enjoy the music? Do you enjoy the people? Is it worth the time that you're putting into it? If you enjoy, maybe you stick it out. If not, find a gig you do enjoy.

Regarding the slide...If a gig is starting to go sideways, it's not the time to throw another curveball at the guys who are already struggling, in my opinion. To me, the professional thing to do in that situation is to play as solidly as possible. Make sure the structure is there to help the other guys regain their bearings. You're throwing them a lifeline. If I'm on a gig and it's getting shaky, I play as simply as possible. It may not be what I hoped to do, but having a gig, or even a single tune go off the rails isn't any fun either.

This is true. The slide actually played exactly the same line and wasn’t a complete “redo”. But, in retrospect, I should have just played even simpler. At the time of the slide, I felt the music needed a kick in the a$$ somehow, because outside of the vocalist, and keyboardist who couldn’t hear himself, nobody was delivering.

 

[Admiral Akbar]

Tell him that if he doesn't like you playing to deduct that particular bass line from your pay check.

that’s actually really good - permission to use? Lol

 

[Admiral Akbar]

Asking a bandmate not to try something entirely new at one of the few gigs we do and try it first during practice seems really sensible to me. Unless it's a jam or some experimental type of music, gigs are for playing what we rehearsed as good as possible. Sorry, but if I was that guitar player, I'd be pissed. I'd feel an agreement was broken, independently of the mistakes I or other players had made.

That being said, it's obvious you are not satisfied with your general experience in that band. Talk openly with them, say what you don't like, say what you would like to change, listen to what they say about it and finaly see if there is a way to make it more appealing to you that everyone agrees with. And if there is no agreement, start looking for another band.

I don’t blame him at all for being upset. I just wish he had been cooler with asking me to hold off on the technique, rather than telling me flat out “no”. Secondly, and worse, his response calling it “messy” was condescending. There were a lot worse things than somebody trying slide on that gig to call “messy”, starting with his own performance, to be fair.

 

[No Malarky]

In my opinion, this won't end well.

Walk.

 

[Admiral Akbar]

I've never been in a band where I felt I needed to ask permission to use a slide, or really to play whatever I want. Occasionally, I have had band members ask me to back it off a little in places, or in cover bands to keep it note-for-note with the original, and I generally obliged. This whole "I have to ask before I even try it, and I'll probably be told no" sounds suffocating to me.

@Lee Moses exactly how I feel. It’s my bassline that I played on a record I did for free, at a gig I’m playing for free. Would he have complained if I played with a pick, or used a chorus pedal?