Should people go to prison for filing false rape cases?

[kohntarkosz]

You adding the ninja smiley makes your post look a bit questionable, that's all.

Well I won't use them again then.

 

[GrumpiusMaximus]

In the UK it is free and relatively easy.

It can be relatively 'easy' to have somebody sectioned under a section 136 (public) and then immediately a section 2 (assessment) will follow (lasting 48 hours), perhaps followed by a section 3 (residential care) if the section 2 assessment advises it. A section 135 is more difficult because that refers to private addresses and that requires a court order (i.e. a warrant) that can take up to 72 hours to grant. A section 136 does not require any kind of court order and can be undertaken anywhere that is public - e.g. in the street.

The process is simple. If you believe somebody is at risk of harming themselves or others, you phone the Police, who will visit and then make an assessment. If the assessment is that they are a risk, the individual will usually be offered a choice to come voluntarily to the local psychiatric centre or they will be taken under a 136. The Police decide if that is appropriate.

Other than the Police, AMHPS (approved mental health practitioners - specialist social workers) can order an individual to be sectioned but nobody else can. In fact, in UK law it is the only only manner in which an individual can be taken into residential custody without a court hearing, other than terrorist offences.

I work in mental health and I've had to invoke the procedure a few times. It's actually quite a good system if there is an individual at risk. 'Easy' is relative. The procedure is simple but the other connotations are not.

 

[macaroni tony]

Lol, I'm not sure what you guys are talking about because I haven't really been following the thread but, thanks! (I think!??)

Keep it that way. Relic. Don't read the thread.

Relic.

Relic!!!!!

 

[bassinplace]

Unfortunately it sometimes takes years of them running around doing crazy stuff before they are identified and legally dealt with. Try having a relative committed - it's not cheap or easy.

Well, there's a whole spectrum of crazy. The more harmful a person becomes, the more likely they are to be diagnosed. If they're going around making false accusations of rape, they're going to be noticed pretty easily.

 

[macaroni tony]

Well, there's a whole spectrum of crazy. The more harmful a person becomes, the more likely they are to be diagnosed. If they're going around making false accusations of rape, they're going to be noticed pretty easily.

I'd imagine so, as well. At least I hope so. Our care of the mentally ill (at least in California) needs to be examined.

It's funny, I posted in another thread about an old lady who used to live in the apartment under me. She was at first normal, then did stranger and stranger things until she confronted me about climbing through her window in the middle of the night and molesting her. Even called the cops on me once. Soon after she was being picked up by a van every day, don't know where they were taking her. I assumed it was some kind of part-time care facility for old and/or crazy people

 

[Relic]

Keep it that way. Relic. Don't read the thread.

Relic.

Relic!!!!!

LALALALALALALALALAAALLAAALAA

 

[Relic]

Well, there's a whole spectrum of crazy. The more harmful a person becomes, the more likely they are to be diagnosed. If they're going around making false accusations of rape, they're going to be noticed pretty easily.

Well... heavy duty story here, and no, this is not me that this occurred /is occurring to, but it is a family member. I swear on every bass that I own that this is true, so help me Jaco.

I have an ex-in law who is diagnosed bipolar, and sociopathic. She and my family member went through a messy divorce. During the course of the divorce, she had used threats of rape claims and even worse, as leverage to get what she wanted - $ house, cars, boat, 401k, etc. When she was refused, there would be a new claim reported to the police, or court. So it was basically extortion, no other word for it.
Every claim that she made, and there were several, were treated with a "guilty until proven innocent" approach. She could make the wildest, most outlandish claims and the court would pursue them. For every claim, my family member had to endure the supposed blame, basically counter it and prove how/why it is false. This happened multiple times, and in each incident, my family member won. This woman has since lost custody of her daughter (who had saved the day multiple times even though she was in the mom's custody at the time), lost every friend, alienated every family member and every now and then STILL attempts a "revenge report" to the police, who really dont take it seriously any more as they know the game. She's even got a restraining order preventing her from contacting the family member or her daughter which she breaks periodically.
As to how this person is not institutionalized or imprisoned for false claims, and breaking restraining orders is beyond my comprehension.
This was discussed with authorities who could do nothing real about it according to NJ state law.

So, bearing the above in mind - should women who make false rape claims be imprisoned or punished in some way? Yes.

Should it be a simple, quick, easy thing? No. There should be enough overwhelming evidence that proves the lie beyond a shadow of a doubt before this happens.
This whole thing - false rape claims - are horrible. Not only can they destroy a person's life, but the whole specter of them - if the courts were to look into counter-punishment for false claims, pollutes the legal process and can very realistically prevent women from pursuing real rape cases, which is hard enough, god only knows, out of fear of punishment if they fail to prove their case.
No easy answer IMO.

Edit - see that's the problem with the whole issue, the legal system's goal should REALLY be prevention of false claims, not punishment for them. If you go with the punishment angle to acheive that goal, it may prevent future false claims for sure but that same prevention's going to have an impact on women considering reporting real claims of which there are many.
ugh, why did I post in this thread..why why why

 

[bassinplace]

Well... heavy duty story here, and no, this is not me that this occurred /is occurring to, but it is a family member. I swear on every bass that I own that this is true, so help me Jaco.

I have an ex-in law who is diagnosed bipolar, and sociopathic. She and my family member went through a messy divorce. During the course of the divorce, she had used threats of rape claims and even worse, as leverage to get what she wanted - $ house, cars, boat, 401k, etc. When she was refused, there would be a new claim reported to the police, or court. So it was basically extortion, no other word for it.
Every claim that she made, and there were several, were treated with a "guilty until proven innocent" approach. She could make the wildest, most outlandish claims and the court would pursue them. For every claim, my family member had to endure the supposed blame, basically counter it and prove how/why it is false. This happened multiple times, and in each incident, my family member won. This woman has since lost custody of her daughter (who had saved the day multiple times even though she was in the mom's custody at the time), lost every friend, alienated every family member and every now and then STILL attempts a "revenge report" to the police, who really dont take it seriously any more as they know the game. She's even got a restraining order preventing her from contacting the family member or her daughter which she breaks periodically.
As to how this person is not institutionalized or imprisoned for false claims, and breaking restraining orders is beyond my comprehension.
This was discussed with authorities who could do nothing real about it according to NJ state law.

So, bearing the above in mind - should women who make false rape claims be imprisoned or punished in some way? Yes.

Should it be a simple, quick, easy thing? No. There should be enough overwhelming evidence that proves the lie beyond a shadow of a doubt before this happens.
This whole thing - false rape claims - are horrible. Not only can they destroy a person's life, but the whole specter of them - if the courts were to look into counter-punishment for false claims, pollutes the legal process and can very realistically prevent women from pursuing real rape cases, which is hard enough, god only knows, out of fear of punishment if they fail to prove their case.
No easy answer IMO.

Edit - see that's the problem with the whole issue, the legal system's goal should REALLY be prevention of false claims, not punishment for them. If you go with the punishment angle to acheive that goal, it may prevent future false claims for sure but that same prevention's going to have an impact on women considering reporting real claims of which there are many.
ugh, why did I post in this thread..why why why

Well, in your case it sounds like justice prevailed, only that person never got the professional help she needed. I guess that's the tricky part. If they're not physically hurting anyone, then I guess it's kinda up to them if they want to seek out help or not. It's a grey area.

 

[Relic]

Well, in your case it sounds like justice prevailed, only that person never got the professional help she needed. I guess that's the tricky part. If they're not physically hurting anyone, then I guess it's kinda up to them if they want to seek out help or not. It's a grey area.

She refused it, it was offered and even ordered at one point.

But yeah, I think that the distinction here is that the law prevailed, not necessarily justice. Justice would have seen her punished, but the law saw to it that her claims ended up being seen for what they were.
You are so right - def a big grey area!

 

[DerHoggz]

Based on that story, I will now assume all women lie about all "rapes."

Thanks for the warning.

 

[peledog]

Since it is extremely difficult to come forward to claim being raped (I do not have statistical data, just a sense from what I've read, heard and seen), I can only assume that false accusations hurt those who really are victims.

I don't know if this could be added to any punitive measures for those guilty of false rape accusations - but at bare minimum it should be something akin to perjury.

 

[macaroni tony]

Since it is extremely difficult to come forward to claim being raped (I do not have statistical data, just a sense from what I've read, heard and seen), I can only assume that false accusations hurt those who really are victims.

I don't know if this could be added to any punitive measures for those guilty of false rape accusations - but at bare minimum it should be something akin to perjury.

Troof.

Based on that story, I will now assume all women lie about all "rapes."

Thanks for the warning

Spot on impersonation. Color me impressed

 

[DerHoggz]

Troof.




Spot on impersonation. Color me impressed

I had to add an emoticon, it was scaring me.

 

[Relic]

Am I missing something??

 

[MatticusMania]

I had to add an emoticon, it was scaring me.

Someone might mistake it for your actual opinion, as it happened to me just yesterday.

Dont parody ridiculous opinions without proper emotification. Should be a forum rule.

 

[DerHoggz]

Am I missing something??

This thread.

 

[macaroni tony]

This thread.

Keep it that way Relic. Keep it that way.

 

[Relic]

maybe I will, dammit!

 

[Febs]

I don't know if this could be added to any punitive measures for those guilty of false rape accusations - but at bare minimum it should be something akin to perjury.

I can't speak to all states, but Pennsylvania has a statute criminalizing false reports to law enforcement authorities. False reports to law enforcement authorities is a misdemeanor, and carries a potential maximum sentence of either one year for a third degree misdemeanor or two years for a second degree misdemeanor.

In contrast, Pennsylvania defines perjury as a false statement made under oath in any "official proceeding." Perjury is a third-degree felony, which has a maximum sentence of 7 years imprisonment.

This is the applicable chapter of the PA statutes: Invalid Link Removed

 

[edpal]

I thought you were just complaining at how difficult it is to institutionalise somebody in the US?

Make up your mind.

By 'easy', in the UK, you still need a substantial body of evidence. "Grandma forgot her glasses this morning" doesn't cut it. But, the next of kin can declare and individual to be a risk to themselves and appropriate steps can be taken. I don't think there is a culture of people intentionally shuffling off elderly relatives to get to their money... maybe this is how you would abuse the system were it to exist in the US?

Having ACTUALLY having to go through the process with my late mother my thoughts were about how time consuming and expensive it is here (US). You were initially making it sound easy-peasy in the UK so I would counter that you sir are the one changing gears now. Sounds like the system in the UK is very similar to ours, but it is still incredibly strenuous if the person has a modicum of their senses still. In my mother's case she wrote a letter to the Court so she got a second round through the system - it is very sad to have to testify about how your loving parent is no longer taking care of them selves. She was crushed when her primary Dr. testified the same...but she still loved him. He even spoke at her funeral which was pretty cool. Sorry I went so far OT. Resume gents.