Should the Dodgers be given the trophy?

[slobake]

The LA Dodgers Lost the World Series in 5 games to the Red Sox and in seven games to the Astros. No it seems pretty certain that both the Red Sox and the Astros were using high tech combined with flashing lights and trash can banging to steal the signs from the Dodgers.
Is this serious enough that both teams should lose the trophy to the Dodgers? Maybe a better case could be made for stripping the Astros title since they won it in the seventh game.
Should this be precedent that MLB won't allow this type of cheating to win titles? It's true that teams cheat in all kinds of ways and there are probably ways we are not aware of. Maybe even the Dodgers were cheating somehow during those championship games. So, where does MLB draw the line and say this it too much?
As some of you know I am a die hard SFGiants fan and always root against the Dodgers. I respect the LA Dodgers but I don't like them. Even with that I hate to see any team lose a hard earned title because of chicanery.
What say you Talkbass baseball fans?

 

[bholder]

I don't know about the Dodgers, but yeah, the Patriots ought to have been forced to forfeit that one Superbowl (or maybe I forget, was it two? Been at least 2 Pats' cheating scandals since...). I find it harder and harder to watch pro sports, not just because of the injuries, but also the outright cheating that gets tolerated and even rewarded.

 

[Jim Nazium]

I'm not familiar with the Red Sox situation, but the Astros it seems pretty clear. I think the league has to punish them to maintain any credibility. The Tour de France doesn't have an official winner for , what 7 years? 1998 - 2005? If the UCI can do it, MLB can.

 

[buldog5151bass]

If the Red Sox result is the same as the Astros, and it was going on to that extent during the World Series, I think you vacate the championship. Based on what I saw with the Astros, I believe it was extensive enough to have altered the outcome of games.

 

[GregC]

I think the Astros should have had their title vacated, but that doesn't mean the trophy goes to the Dodgers. Still waiting for more info/research on the Red Sox situation.

 

[Stewie26]

Slobake. You have made it very clear in the past that you are not a Dodger fan which I respect. That said, thanks for bringing this up. I am not sure what the outcome is going to be, but sadly, it has certainly damaged the creditably of MLB. At a minimum, I would like to see the Astros and the Red Sox striped of their World Series titles and perhaps even more.

 

[bassicmike]

I assume the Dodgers were using video as well, just not as well as the Sox or the Astros.

I assume all of them are.

 

[bassicmike]

the price has been paid by the Astros.

Hinch, GM fired for Astros sign stealing after MLB bans pair

If there's a Cora connection, he'll be suspended for at least a year, as well.

 

[Mushroo]

For those not familiar with the situation, the current Red Sox manager Alex Cora was Hinch's former bench coach for the Astros. The implication being that Cora learned how to steal signs in Houston, and then brought the system with him to Boston.

I suspect in reality this is probably one of those "every team does it; these are just the ones that got caught" situations. I distinguish between "lower case c cheating in an era rife with cheating" vs. "egregious upper case C Cheating" and I think this was an example of the former. That's why I voted "let them keep their trophies" in the poll.

 

[bassicmike]

The Marlins are probably doing it too, but who cares.

Apparently Cora is an excellent sign stealer, anyway. can suss that **** out just by watching.

He'll probably be doing it from his couch next season.

 

[buldog5151bass]

The issue is not sign stealing, it's using mechanical means to do so, which is clearly against the rules. MLB recently also instituted specific guidelines on the placement of cameras to prevent this.

I've seen the video showing what the Astros did. This wasn't isolate cases - they were reading and relaying signs back continually to the batter. As someone who played against former DIv. I and MLB players, I believe this was sufficient to affect the outcome of games.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

I stopped watching or following MLB when the Expos left, and yes I’m still bitter that the lockout happened when they where the best team in the league.

Cheating in baseball seems pretty much “part of the game” now IMO. Same goes for football.

Hand claps goes to the cheaters that took video and stole the signals from the other teams.

At least we have the NHL left. (Not saying there are no cheaters there, that’s simply impossible.)

 

[JRA]

i prefer cheating when the deception actually works.

 

[slobake]

 

[Pilgrim]

So, for the Astros, a $5 million fine, loss of draft picks in 2020 and 2012, and two of the team officials first suspended, then fired.

No abdication of the title, which I never believed would happen. Still, a pretty good slap on the wrist.

Also heard about links to the Red Sox via Cora, who was there before moving to Houston.

 

[yodedude2]

I think the Astros should have had their title vacated, but that doesn't mean the trophy goes to the Dodgers. Still waiting for more info/research on the Red Sox situation.

this. one can't simply award the title to the dodgers. having the title vacated was on the table, but mlb said no to that unprecedented step. there certainly is/was a credible argument for it, however.

 

[Gaolee]

Make them eat nothing but TNC for a solid year. No sardines, no pizza, not raman noodles, no burritos, no cheeseburgers, no kimchee. Nope. Nothing but the blandest, slimiest TNC with soggy potato chips on top that anybody ever cooked up in Gahanna, Ohio.

 

[two fingers]

Here's the thing. Take away titles if you can prove it was only those two teams doing it. If everybody is doing it, then they cancel each other out. Enforce it moving forward.

But here's the rest of it for me. These signals are a language. And they are out in the open for everyone to view. There's no way you can stop really smart people from cracking the code of the language. Even if some of the technology is removed, you can still see the guys pulling their ears and hamboning away. They're in plain view of everyone. With a pair of binoculars and a note pad you could crack the code in about two games.

 

[yodedude2]

it's not that they were stealing signs. yu darvish was tipping his pitches in the series and got hammered in l.a. during the series. a runner realying signals from 2nd base is okay too.

it's that they were using video equipment in real time during games at their home field and non-players off the field were relaying that info in real time to game players in the dugout. uggh.

 

[two fingers]

it's not that they were stealing signs. yu darvish was tipping his pitches in the series and got hammered in l.a. during the series. a runner realying signals from 2nd base is okay too.

it's that they were using video equipment in real time during games at their home field and non-players off the field were relaying that info in real time to game players in the dugout. uggh.

So, some kinds of stealing signals are "OK" and some aren't?

The high-tech method is the issue?

Look, I'm all for cleaning up the game. It will be tough, but worth it. But I have a hard time with the method being the problem rather than the overall affect.