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Should the Dodgers be given the trophy?

Should the Astros and Red Sox lose their trophies?

  • Yes, both teams should

    Votes: 6 18.2%

  • Yes but only the Astros should

    Votes: 5 15.2%

  • No, they should keep their trophies

    Votes: 14 42.4%

  • No, I heard the Dodgers were drinking carrot juice.

    Votes: 5 15.2%

  • Force the Astros and Red Sox to serve Tuna Noodle casserole in the clubhouse. That'll learn em

    Votes: 2 6.1%

  • Howard Cosell had a tort hairpiece

    Votes: 6 18.2%
  • Total voters
    33
#61
It's not just knowing the location. They were able to let the batters know the next pitch - would it be a 95mph fastball or a 75mph changeup. That is everything to a batter. If I am batting, I can adjust from a fast ball to a slider, but when you specifically know that a changeup is coming, you can wait for it and groove your swing. Especially today, when batters are swinging for the fences, not just trying to poke the pitch into the outfield, the ability to be able to sit on a pitch like that is incredibly important.
 
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#65
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#66
How about this? A pitcher knows the others team is stealing his signs. He hears a lot of banging on trash cans and delivers a message pitch. He still hears the cans banging so he drills the batter. I wonder how long opposing teams would keep using the same system?
I know, some folks might say the game isn't played that way anymore, maybe it should be.
 
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#67
Bassball Fever said:
Location is one thing, but if you don't know what pitch is coming, there is no chance. A strike right down the middle can be hard to catch if you are expecting fastball and get a slider. If you know what pitch is coming, it is much easier to track.
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You can't say there's "no chance". ALL THE TIME (and I watch a TON of baseball) the catcher will signal for low and out (for instance) and the pitcher will just "miss". The pitch will be nowhere near low and out. But the catcher will catch it no problem. They dig balls out of the dirt all the time. They rarely miss, even though pitchers miss all the time. Catchers will snag 100 mph balls that are two feet out of the strike zone. They reach high and left to snag chin music out of the air. "No chance" is a ridiculous notion.
 
#69
two fingers said:
You can't say there's "no chance". ALL THE TIME (and I watch a TON of baseball) the catcher will signal for low and out (for instance) and the pitcher will just "miss". The pitch will be nowhere near low and out. But the catcher will catch it no problem. They dig balls out of the dirt all the time. They rarely miss, even though pitchers miss all the time. Catchers will snag 100 mph balls that are two feet out of the strike zone. They reach high and left to snag chin music out of the air. "No chance" is a ridiculous notion.
Click to expand...

Again, this is just location. What I'm talking about is what pitch is coming. If a catcher doesn't know that, it doesn't matter where it is, it's going to be hard to catch. Here are some examples of catchers expecting a different pitch. The location isn't the reason that they missed them.

 
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#70
two fingers said:
You can't say there's "no chance". ALL THE TIME (and I watch a TON of baseball) the catcher will signal for low and out (for instance) and the pitcher will just "miss". The pitch will be nowhere near low and out. But the catcher will catch it no problem. They dig balls out of the dirt all the time. They rarely miss, even though pitchers miss all the time. Catchers will snag 100 mph balls that are two feet out of the strike zone. They reach high and left to snag chin music out of the air. "No chance" is a ridiculous notion.
Click to expand...
If a catcher knows what pitch is coming, they generally can adjust. But if they think a curve is coming, and get a fastball, that's when they can get hurt.
 
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#71
two fingers said:
So, only the champion gets punished? That doesn't make any sense.

Let's fine the champion a bazillion dollars and snatch first round draft picks from them. But, the teams that weren't able to turn their cheating into a championship? Well, they're OK. Run along and be a good boy from now on.

Punish those at the top. This country seems to go in that direction more and more every day. Everybody else needs a bucket of blood and a pound of flesh to teach "them" a lesson.
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Oh jeez, this is just absurd. Baseball is penalizing the two teams where there is plain-as-day evidence that they cheated in a manner specifically proscribed by the rules. The fact that they both won the Series is coincidental. The fact that they both employed Alex Cora in leadership positions, on the other hand, clearly is NOT.:roflmao:

I look forward to you taking over the NCAA and insisting that all 300+ basketball programs be investigated before one or two can be punished for recruiting violations.:D

I remember similar whining from baseball fans 15-20 years ago about "going after the guys at the top" when McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, etc. were finally called out for their steroid abuse. And wow, that is quite a streeeeeetch you're making to take this imaginary trend well outside of baseball. Also, that whole claim about what's happening in this country requires a positively stunning form of myopia towards the less fortunate.:eyebrow:
 
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#72
Just speculating, but I think Cora and the Sox know what his punishment will be.
Dan Shaughnessy reported that Cora told him he was going home to raise his daughter. I'm thinking he was told or is anticipating a lifetime ban.
Just a guess.
 
#75
4StringAxe said:
Just speculating, but I think Cora and the Sox know what his punishment will be.
Dan Shaughnessy reported that Cora told him he was going home to raise his daughter. I'm thinking he was told or is anticipating a lifetime ban.
Just a guess.
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It should be a lifetime ban. If Pete Rose gets a lifetime ban for betting on games Alex Cora should get a lifetime ban for blatantly breaking the rules.
 
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#77
GregC said:
Oh jeez, this is just absurd. Baseball is penalizing the two teams where there is plain-as-day evidence that they cheated in a manner specifically proscribed by the rules. The fact that they both won the Series is coincidental. The fact that they both employed Alex Cora in leadership positions, on the other hand, clearly is NOT.:roflmao:

I look forward to you taking over the NCAA and insisting that all 300+ basketball programs be investigated before one or two can be punished for recruiting violations.:D

I remember similar whining from baseball fans 15-20 years ago about "going after the guys at the top" when McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, etc. were finally called out for their steroid abuse. And wow, that is quite a streeeeeetch you're making to take this imaginary trend well outside of baseball. Also, that whole claim about what's happening in this country requires a positively stunning form of myopia towards the less fortunate.:eyebrow:
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I agree. Saying that others did something does not take away the fact someone did something illegal. It is also childish. Reminds me of a child saying "Well he did it too."
As a former manager I would have to deal with this type of attempted obfuscation. An employee would point out the supposed shortcoming of others and even my own supposed shortcomings. When that happened I would respond with something like "That may be true and I will look into it, but right now we are talking about what you did." At times I would have to repeat that statement several times to keep the conversation on track. When I said that I would always follow up by looking into any valid complaints the employee had.
 
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#78
So, what about the players involved now?
Those clutch hits. Big innings and bravado after home runs and what not. How much was "real"?
I don't even have the complete details on the Sox yet and feel like I watched someone cheat at a video game. Their accomplishments for 2918 mean nothing now.
Bregman was actually taunting opposing pitchers. Did he beat them or cheat them?
 
#79
The commissioner gave immunity to all the players. That was how they got them to give evidence so they could catch who they did.

As I said in the other thread, if we see home runs down throughout the league in 2020, we will have some real evidence as to the extent of the cheating.
 
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#80
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