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Should the guy pulling the trailer get gas money?

#21
4StringShooter said:
FIFTY miles for ONE buck? What are you, a super-cheapskate??
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Agreed. Simple math seems to be eluding some of the respondents here.

100 mile roundtrip at 15 mpg is 6.7 gals of gas and if you're pulling any size trailer at all 15 mpg is a pipe dream (our rig gets 8 on average). 6.7 gals times 3.80 a gallon and you're at almost $26 for the trip. Youre gonna ask a guy who's maybe grossing $100 on the gig to absorb 1/4 of his pay for something that benefits the whole band? I don't think so.

Fairest way to do it is to consider gas for the trailer as overhead, take it off the top and pad your price by that much if need be.
 
#22
As a BL / owner myself, this could be handled easily several different ways.

1. buy the band out completely, buy a vehicle to pull the trailer, and start taking an additional cut, or take a flat rate off the top of every booking
2. calculate the costs of pulling the trailer and re-emburse - also set a per hour fee for PA rental
3. set up a "band" fund, sell the band all the equipment (including the trailer), pay the person who pulls the trailer for gas, and deduct any band business expenses off the top. Individual members would be responsible for personal gear, meals, travel, lodging, etc.
4. make yourself BL / owner, and set a pay schedule per gig. Take all band related exspnses off the top, (again PA rental, gas, etc).

first thoughts that came to mind.
 
#24
4StringShooter said:
FIFTY miles for ONE buck? What are you, a super-cheapskate??
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While I don't necessarily agree with the one buck suggestion, I think some of us are misinterpreting what its author meant.

He clearly said "each of you" give him one dollar, MAYBE TWO, to "offest the difference."

It seems from the OP that everyone is driving to the gig separately, so assuming the driver is responsible for the gas to get himself to the gig anyway and would already be driving his own car, and we're talking about the extra cost for now attaching the trailer to his otherwise-already-going-to-the-gig car:

Four people each give a dollar or two = approximately $6.00. The "difference" being the difference in fuel cost between hauling and not hauling, maybe 3 MPG. Let's say he averages 20 MPG without, and 17 MPG with the trailer, 100 mile round trip MAXIMUM, or can we say 30-40 mile round trip AVERAGE. Let's use 40. That's 2 gallons without the trailer, 2.36 with. The difference in gasoline used in this scenario is .36 gallons. At $3.80/gallon, that's $1.37.

Even at more extreme numbers, say 22 MPG without the trailer and 13 MPG with, and an average trip of 60 miles (not likely) round trip. That's 2.72 gallons without the trailer, and 4.61 gallons with for a difference of 1.89 gallons additional used. 1.89 x 3.80 = $7.12, STILL within the scale of the original suggestion.

My guess is that the majority of their gigs are within 20 miles round trip. So yeah, a buck or two from each member should cover the difference.

Simple, but more accurate math. :p
 
#25
jaywa said:
Agreed. Simple math seems to be eluding some of the respondents here.

100 mile roundtrip at 15 mpg is 6.7 gals of gas and if you're pulling any size trailer at all 15 mpg is a pipe dream (our rig gets 8 on average). 6.7 gals times 3.80 a gallon and you're at almost $26 for the trip. Youre gonna ask a guy who's maybe grossing $100 on the gig to absorb 1/4 of his pay for something that benefits the whole band? I don't think so.

Fairest way to do it is to consider gas for the trailer as overhead, take it off the top and pad your price by that much if need be.
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Sorry, but if you're going to try using math to figure out how much he should get paid, you have to be more realistic.

First the band shouldn't pay for gas he would otherwise use (he'd take his truck and have to pay for gas to get himself to the gig even without a trailer). So, assume that 60% of the fuel cost belongs to him personally. Using your numbers, that's $10.40 for the towing of the trailer he should get for a 100 mile trip (40% of $26). Now, he also USES the equipment (that doesn't belong to him, BTW) for the gig, so he's responsible for that portion of the gas as well. So, assuming the band is 4 people, he is also responsible for 25% of the fuel cost himself: -$2.60 His more realistic grand total for gas (putting aside all other issues of someone else not getting paid for their equipment) is $7.80. Percentages could be adjusted accordingly if there are more band members. Either way, he's looking at less than $10 for a 100 mile trip.

That's what I'd present to him if he was demanding gas money (and a bill for PA, equipment rental, and billing management).
 
#26
ChrisB2 said:
While I don't necessarily agree with the one buck suggestion, I think some of us are misinterpreting what its author meant.

He clearly said "each of you" give him one dollar, MAYBE TWO, to "offest the difference."

It seems from the OP that everyone is driving to the gig separately, so assuming the driver is responsible for the gas to get himself to the gig anyway and would already be driving his own car, and we're talking about the extra cost for now attaching the trailer to his otherwise-already-going-to-the-gig car:

Four people each give a dollar or two = approximately $6.00. The "difference" being the difference in fuel cost between hauling and not hauling, maybe 3 MPG. Let's say he averages 20 MPG without, and 17 MPG with the trailer, 100 mile round trip MAXIMUM, or can we say 30-40 mile round trip AVERAGE. Let's use 40. That's 2 gallons without the trailer, 2.36 with. The difference in gasoline used in this scenario is .36 gallons. At $3.80/gallon, that's $1.37.

Even at more extreme numbers, say 22 MPG without the trailer and 13 MPG with, and an average trip of 60 miles (not likely) round trip. That's 2.72 gallons without the trailer, and 4.61 gallons with for a difference of 1.89 gallons additional used. 1.89 x 3.80 = $7.12, STILL within the scale of the original suggestion.

My guess is that the majority of their gigs are within 20 miles round trip. So yeah, a buck or two from each member should cover the difference.

Simple, but more accurate math. :p
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Haha, looks like we were typing at the same time, and came out very close too! :)
 
#27
Chris B2 and Youngun, I get your points but there is additional stress and strain put on the vehicle that is pulling the trailer (and the driver, if it involves heavy traffic, etc.)... so my feeling is that the person who is taking on that additional responsibility for the good of the band is entitled to somewhat more than just a reimbursement of the difference calculated down the gnat's eyelash. Especially if the same person is assuming that responsibility most or all of the time. My "simple math" comment was more a reaction to what I perceived as a flippant, dismissive attitude in a couple of the previous responses to the effect of "it's really no big deal." Well, yeah, it is a big deal -- in principle even if the numbers aren't huge -- and I was simply trying to demonstrate why.

In short, my answer to the OP's original question is "yes." The amount and form of that compensation is up to them.
 
#28
jaywa said:
Chris B2 and Youngun, I get your points but there is additional stress and strain put on the vehicle that is pulling the trailer (and the driver, if it involves heavy traffic, etc.)... so my feeling is that the person who is taking on that additional responsibility for the good of the band is entitled to somewhat more than just a reimbursement of the difference calculated down the gnat's eyelash. Especially if the same person is assuming that responsibility most or all of the time. My "simple math" comment was more a reaction to what I perceived as a flippant, dismissive attitude in a couple of the previous responses to the effect of "it's really no big deal." Well, yeah, it is a big deal -- in principle even if the numbers aren't huge -- and I was simply trying to demonstrate why.

In short, my answer to the OP's original question is "yes." The amount and form of that compensation is up to them.
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Then IMO, math calculations based on fuel consumption shouldn't be used as the justification for those things. Gas money is gas money, and its pretty easy to assign quantities and numbers to that based on consumption. Assigning math numbers to "wear and tear" and " extra responsibility" are a different issue and opens another can of worms. As has been adequately stated, the guy hauling the gear neither paid for or acquired that gear, and yet is using it freely (and putting "wear and tear" on it, and assuming no responsibility for liability of the gear most likely), while those who did pay for it are not asking for anything extra from him for its use.

If what the guy asked for is gas money, then its pretty easy to say "yes" here is your $7 (or whatever amount based on distance). If he wants more than that, because he feels the extra trouble is unfair for him, then his reasoning needs to be taken in context with all the other issues of what is "fair" for the whole band.
 
#29
work it out man. yes the burden should be shared physically as well as financially. I have a gig where I get paid gas money for coming to practice. Its the little things that sometimes keeps everyone happy. Give the man some change for his gas and also discuss the PA thing.
 
#30
younggun said:
If what the guy asked for is gas money, then its pretty easy to say "yes" here is your $7 (or whatever amount based on distance). If he wants more than that, because he feels the extra trouble is unfair for him, then his reasoning needs to be taken in context with all the other issues of what is "fair" for the whole band.
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Excellent summary.

Jaywa, I wasn't really arguing against your point, but rather stating that the difference in gas used really isn't that much and the guy who suggested "one or two dollars" really wasn't far off, dollar-wise, for the difference in gas.

This all has to be worked out in each band, there is no right or wrong. It's whatever everyone agrees to. But my response to OP was that the guy was being a twit because he was the only one who complained about doing a little extra. When he was getting the benefit of the others pulling the trailer he didn't offer THEM money. And it's not even his PA he's using!

If a band agrees to give someone extra money for whatever, that's fine. But this guy was being a twit.

:D
 
#31
To the OP -- is there any way with the current vehicle situation that you and your two bandmates could all ride to the gig in the same vehicle that pulls the trailer? Or is that what you're doing currently? Maybe with the tight radius of all your gigs it's not a big deal for everyone to drive their own vehicle to every gig but if my band did that on some of our longer-haul jobs (400 miles or more roundtrip) we wouldn't net enough on the gig to make it worth the trip. It sounds like you're only a trio so it's not like you'd need a full-size SUV or anything to ride everyone in.

Also... from what I gather there are 3 guys in the band but you only mention 2 drivers. Does the 3rd guy always bum a ride with one of the other two? And what is he doing "above and beyond" for the band since it sounds like you and the other "driver" are pretty much covering everything? From your original post it kinda feels like the 3rd guy is getting a "free ride" (literally and figuratively), unless he's putting time towards marketing, the Website, merch or some such.
 
#33
Muttleybass said:
Road gigs, we usually try to fit everything in as few vehicles as possible (2 in our case). Owners of the vehicles show up for departure with a full tank. Upon returning from trip, all vehicles get filled and the money comes off the top. The rest is split.
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1 vehicle -- the BL's -- is the norm in our band (which rarely plays a gig under 50 miles away). That vehicle has room for everyone in the band, and it pulls the trailer with all the band's production gear as well as personal gear/backline.

There have been a couple of times in extenuating circumstances when the BL has given a 2nd person gas money for taking their vehicle, but as a rule the band rig is the only vehicle that gets fueled with gig money. Any of us are welcome to take our personal vehicle to any gig, but that gas comes out of our pocket, not the band's.
 
#35
But seriously, if he's being petty over the $5 dollars he's losing out by towing the trailer then simply saying, "Hey, no worries. You can have that money. I'll just need an extra $50 cut of all gig earnings to cover PA costs, PLUS an additional $10 for use of my trailer" will probably shut him up REALLY fast.
 
#36
This is why I'm curious about the 3rd guy in the OP's band who isn't identified as a "driver". If this 3rd guy doesn't own the P.A., lights or trailer, doesn't do any of the booking, and is bumming a ride to every gig... yet is getting a full cut of the gig $$... it seems to me he's the guy the other two should be hitting-up for a little sugar.
 
#37
Floyd Eye said:
My drummer pulls our 16' enclosed trailer. We pay for the actual gas costs out of the gig money.
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Damn! You use a 16 foot trailer? How much stuff do you have? I have rented a 6 footer on a few occasions and I could fit all my bands gear in it twice, and i play a fridge and the guitar players both use 4X12 cab halfstacks. With a normal 5 piece drum kit. Granted our PA is on the smaller side and we have no light rig to speak of, but we rarely need to take that kind of stuff anyway.
 
#38
Well, I was going to comment but after reading the second page it is apparent some other TBers actually know something about economics. The difference would entail the addition fuel costs of pulling the trailer, not the entire tank of gas as he was already having to drive said vehicle to the show anyways. I don't even need to show you the math is laid out quite nicely already.

So like I said earlier, yes you should get money, but the guy is opening a can of worms that is best left unopened your going to end up nickel and diming everything (as we clearly already have) and the fuel difference won't amount to trailer and P.A. rental on the best days with the cheapest of rentals.
 
#39
fenderhutz said:
I offered our drummer 10% of the gig pay for gas and related expenses, he turned it down. He also owns the PA and trailer.

It's the right thing to do, even if everyone just throws in 5 bucks each per gig. I know in WV you have to register the trailer as well. That isn't free.
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+1 I agree!! owning the PA and crap does not make anyone in any band I ever been in more valuable, I would just be happy he was doing it so I did not have to, no matter who it all belonged to. Just toss the guy 5 bucks each, that little bit would be worth it to me!
 
#40
jmattbassplaya said:
But seriously, if he's being petty over the $5 dollars he's losing out by towing the trailer then simply saying, "Hey, no worries. You can have that money. I'll just need an extra $50 cut of all gig earnings to cover PA costs, PLUS an additional $10 for use of my trailer" will probably shut him up REALLY fast.
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I would walk away! The day a band member starts throwing out the :I own this and that" card would be the day I leave, and I bet others would over time! Damn people, get along and stop being so petty, "I own this and that", "someone touched my bass rig and I almost punched him"....man..... I am so happy to not have to play with a lot of these people! :hiding:
 

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