Should the Wanted forums be viewable by Supporting Members only?

[Baird6869]

If non-supporters can't actually see any of the "Wanted" ads, they would be much less likely to pay $30 thru a potentially trackable means to see the ads and scam people IMO.

I never use the Wanted ads, but use the Classifieds all the time. I also would not buy anything off anyone without them having around 20 positive and high ticket item TB feedback or being able to talk on the phone so I can feel them out. If they are new members with zero (or little) feedback and I can't find out who get are on the web or on LinkedIn, I won't deal with them. Just me though....

 

[x52dcd]

I think whatever rules apply to posting in the FS section should apply to viewing the WTB section - they are very similar features, just the origin is reversed. As such, I personally wouldn't have an objection to restricting viewing of the WTB to SM's.

I'm indifferent on the time/post count thing. I can see the benefit of it "validating" a user's credibility, but I'm sure many of us came to talkbass for the classifieds and would have moved on if we had to wait a month before we could buy/sell. As for the post count, you could easily ring up enough meangingless replies to threads to meet the threshold in no time, and still provide no real indication of your character. If a buyer/seller only looks at the post count and not take the time to read through them, that is. I mostly read this forum to learn, and likely had several transactions before starting my first thread, all before a 30-60 day window.

I think I'm going to abstain from the vote - the mods here do a great job and I will support whatever decision they make. When providing a classifieds forum, I don't think any of the safeguards in place/suggested will prevent scamming altogether, so the onus will forever be on the people involved to do their due diligence.

The classifieds has a well-established enough user base now that the only "rule" that I think could really make a significant difference is that you couldn't sell (either in post in FS or view WTB) unless you have at least one positive feedback as a buyer first. That too can be circumvented, but would have the most clout in proving you are who you say are.

 

[greybeard125]

Unfortunately no matter what we do, there are going to be scammers and con-artists to make their way thru our attempts to keep our site as good as it is. It's up to each of us to check out each transaction as thoroughly as we can and then take our chances. I know if something, anything, feels wrong to me I back out. Haven't been stung yet, but then again, it's only Thursday!
We've got a great bass site here, we'll just have to keep our eyes and ears open to make any changes to keep it that way. I'll vote for #3.

When does the poll end and any changes take effect?

 

[Flad]

I was under the impression that the reason you are required to purchase a membership to become a seller (post things for sale) was to verify the seller. It creates a paper trail that leads to the seller's money (credit card or bank account) and verifies their other info. The only thing i could see that would help folks not be scammed like this is the future is making it against the rules to even offer to sell via this site without a paid membership and to also make it against the rules to purchase an item from someone who is not a paid member. In fact you can just make it one rule - No buying things from non-supporting memberships. Restricting access to the wanted section is something I am wholeheartedly against. Buyers shouldn't be punished because the sellers found a loophole in the rules.

 

[bahia0019]

Since you're required to be SM to sell, I think SMs should be allowed to see WTB posts.
In addition... I think they should be members for at least 60 days. Post count should be irrelevant.

I posted a WTB for a GK Cab and got contacted from someone that just joined. Emailed me, didn't give me a name, asked how I wanted to pay, dropped price $200 on a dime, asked how I wanted to pay again...
I've got a pretty good bulls##t detector so I knew something was up and told him so, then reported him.

But whatever systems TB can implement to make this a safe purchasing space, the better.

So I vote for SM AND a length of time as member.

 

[::::BASSIST::::]

I've seen Wanted sections on other forum website where access is limited to the length of time a user has been a member and the number of posts you have. So for instance, you could have a rule where you can only view/post in the Wanted section if you have been a member of the forum for 30 days and have 30 posts. And you limit those posts to certain sections of the website. So you can't just go to the "Welcome" forum and say "hi" in 30 different posts just to get the number up.

I much prefer this idea. When my subscription comes up for renewal I will not be renewing. $30 USD is close to $40cdn and I just can't justify that cost.

I've been a member for 10 years and I don't think its fair to exclude people in my situation. The number of years and number of posts a person has contributed is a much better method.

 

[iualum]

What is to keep a scammer from becoming a supporting member? If your potential take is $1500, what's a minor contribution?

Heck, even legit bass players have pulled crap here, so what is excluding folks based on financial outlay going to accomplish?

Excellent point! Makes it even easier to scam. Legitimizes the scammer to a much greater degree.

 

[iualum]

I see the "How to avoid getting ripped-off on the internet" sticky has been added to the WTB forum. Very good addition.

I'm very sorry that anyone got taken in by this scammer, but 4 is a relatively tiny fraction of the total transactions.

Also, let's be honest, the guy was from Nigeria! Nigerian scammers are legendary everywhere & should almost always (maybe just plain always) be given wide berth. By doing basic due diligence, scamming can be cut to almost zero.

 

[iualum]

I've added a 3rd option to the poll.

As some others have mentioned, I also voted before this option was included.

I'd make the thresholds greater, maybe at least a 100 post minimum & a 6 month membership period, although a 150-200 post minimum & 1 year membership period isn't unreasonable, imho.

An even better idea is to require some minimum number of positive feedbacks (along with some post minimum & membership period) & no negative ones before access to the WTB forum is allowed. Maybe 10 positive feedbacks?

 

[brstma]

I'm sure I remember that in the past I couldn't post in the classifieds until I became a supporting member, and when I didn't renew I couldn't post again until I did renew. Am I wrong, or did that change?

Even if there was a change to the WTB thread, how would that keep someone from posting a fake ad for a bass for sale?

I think that people need to remember that all transactions here are at your own risk. Feedback ratings are key judging someone's reputation as a buyer or seller. Same is true on ebay but they offer some protection.

 

[Luke the Fluke]

so I'm new here - but someone made a pop-up appear asking me to read this thread so I did.

I'm in the UK, I'm active on forums over there. I like this side of the pond... but doubt I'll ever need/want to become a supporting member - I just won't be around enough to make it worth it - heck it took me 5 years of reading occasionally till I signed up.

So there are scammers around - there will ALWAYS be scammers around, and making the wanted posts members only will just restrict their effectiveness. For instance, I might have that thing you want and could point you to good feedback on other forums to prove it.

But if you stop me seeing it till I've been around here a bit, I think time limit and post count (but higher than 30 posts) ... then you learn something about me. So if I offer you a trade, can point you to my good feedback and rep on basschat... and you can click and see some kind of knowledgeable chat about gear (and probably the gear I own, and am offering you) ... then you can see a little if I'm trustworthy.
If you look and I had posted 30 things asking how to upgrade the pickups on my Squier and then am offering you a Fodera alarm bells should ring. If I've 30 posts about the difference between EMG, MEC or SD active EQ pups (anyone know what the 3 switches actually do??) in Warwick basses from the 80's and early 90's and I'm offering you a MEC preamp... then maybe I'm genuine.

You're still going to get scammers though, just different ways.

 

[eyeballkid]

one thing to consider... this is obviously a new breed of Nigerian scammer, one that does their homework and puts in some real effort. I imagine that a person like that may even say "hell! twenty bucks? thats a steal to look legit and make $1500!!"
its really a small investment on the return. Your right, moving to the new idea would get rid of 99% of scammers right away, but this guy is obviously in the 1%. Damn 1 percenters!!! they ruin everything!

I can live with whatever you decide ultimately, and honestly I havent found the WTB to be very helpful.. It seems most people just post a For Sale without looking there first.
I kinda think that making the Wanted section open only to members of a certain post count and membership duration MAY be more effective. 30 days may not be a deterrent to this 1% kinda scammer though.

its a tough conundrum.

 

[castlev]

no, sorry, everybody, ESPECIALLY long time forum members should know not to let their emotions get the best of them. no disrespect to those who were spammed, but personally, i would never send money to anybody else that didn't already had feedback. im not a supporting member, and never would have been able to make my first purchase and receive positive feedback as a buyer, had these new suggestions been in place. again sorry for those that got scammed, but don't punish everybody else.

 

[hintz]

im new here, and not a supporting member(at least right now), but i will say that ive made 4 transactions since i signed up, the first being a WTB ad, and so far so good on my end. it's really a shame that it only takes a few to ruin it for everyone else, as were all bassist's there shouldn't be any trust issues, but it seems there is. with that being said, im hooked on this site, and found 2 items i have been desperately searching for for the last year(two swell pedals), but i do understand if restrictions are put in place.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

If this we're a beer hall and you called for option one, I would say "aye."

I would say "nay" to the following two options.

 

[A-Step-Towards]

This is true, but I see it as defense in depth. Sure they may be willing to pay out $25 to make a post, but it's one more hurdle.

Well now you can pay for TB on a monthly rate I think its $4? or $3. So a scammer pays that and makes $1500-$4=$1496 in profit, I dont see the supporting membership stopping much.The scammer could get even more then one person in that month of supporting membership so the few dollars mean nothing.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

im new here, and not a supporting member(at least right now), but i will say that ive made 4 transactions since i signed up, the first being a WTB ad, and so far so good on my end. it's really a shame that it only takes a few to ruin it for everyone else, as were all bassist's there shouldn't be any trust issues, but it seems there is. with that being said, im hooked on this site, and found 2 items i have been desperately searching for for the last year(two swell pedals), but i do understand if restrictions are put in place.

What's with your lack of feedback if you don't me asking?

I know it is a hassle to get feedback from some people (frankly not leaving feedback should be an offense) but I really pushed for my first one. The first feedback completely legitimizes a person in a lot of seller's eyes. I also find it odd 4 people said no, I find it is only 1 in 4 that don't leave feedback.

 

[Dug2]

+1! If some scammer becomes a supporting member it gives them more of a sense of legitimacy.

this makes me kinda worry and is a scary thought. makes me less of a people person by the day.
but you are absolutely right.

 

[bucephylus]

After all these posts, probably no one will read this; but...

None of the three proposed options make sense to me. I vote for none of the above.

Why not leave things as they are; BUT require sellers who are responding to the WANTED listings to post their gear in the For Sale listing prior to the sale. This would give TB a means to track the sale. Since only Supporting Members can post there, it would by default require the Seller to be a Supporting Member, thereby minimizing the risk to the community. I think it's actually simpler than it sounds and there are two benefits to the community:
1) Track the Sales
2) Provide some level of credibility

 

[petrus61]

I'm cool with supporting only being allowed to view the classifieds, but I'm worried that will shrink the pool of potential buyers. Basically, if someone sends x amount to my PayPal, they're ok in my book, assuming the feedback is copacetic. This idea seems to hurt sellers more than potential buyers, IMO. Whatever system that is adopted should be fair to all parties. I'm still not 100% on any of my thoughts on this, really. I've never really had a problem and the classifieds are an invaluable asset to any member smart enough to realize its value by becoming a supporting member. I'm kind if torn, but won't lose sleep either way.

I almost think an entirely separate FT thread that required supporting membership would help ease some traders concerns.