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Should we play in a bar?

#21
Manuel101 said:
my good man you assume too much. How do you know that i dont stand up to him. I thought i stated that my problem is that i am not too knowledgeable when it comes to promoting the band and the logistics behind it?
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It's the way you're coming across about this, including how this guy is acting. Perhaps he's relying on your ignorance: perhaps he has a bad name around the local bars and doesn't want it known. Whatever his reasons, he's dead wrong. Playing your instrument well is one thing, but in the real world you have to entertain, and entertaining includes selling beer. That's why you're there. You have to impress the bar manager or owner. That leads to other gigs: its not unknown for someone to own more than one bar/venue. Your drummers arrogance is a liability: you won't get known without paying your dues.
 
#22
Welcome to the life of a musician. You will spend a lot of time around people that aren't reasonable and playing in dives while hopefully getting paid.
Some bars are better than others BTW. Together as a band go check the place out on a Friday or Saturday night and see what they clientele is like. If they don't scare you or have some reasonably attractive patrons, take the gig.
 
#24
ewe2 said:
The issue is you can't stand up to him. Make up your mind, what do you really want? Believe me, you can spend years hoping things will change and they will not. Vote with your feet, if you're good enough, you'll find a better band.
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This+This= a whole lot of THIS!

People don't change. He's actually holding you back. If he were so stinking awesome he would be a rock star already. He's not, so he isn't. Period.
 
#25
If you don't have 40 (at least!) songs ready to play, you are not ready for "bar gigs". A normal "bar gig" is one band playing for 4 hours. Most bands play 3 sets with 2 15 - 20 minute breaks thrown in between.

If you have that much music ready to go, then heck yeah! Play bar gigs. But, if you're going to play a significant number of originals, you probably want to choose which bar gigs you play with some care. Some bar managers/owners will NOT be happy if you play a bunch of music nobody knows. Doesn't matter whether it's good or not.
 
#27
You guys must really be good, if your as good as you say you are after playing 9 shows in 10 months.

Thats how a bands start to come together playing bars. My band, this past summer we did 9 one nighter bar shows back to back. That was when things started to come together musically for us. However, I am not going to comment on whether were good or not because I don't know if we are. I leave that stuff up to the people that come to see us.

I played in an originals band a few years ago and the BL thought we were to good to play bars. We ended up breaking up.

I hope you can convince your band to play the bar gigs. If your playing in the intimacy of a bar setting and the people are only drinking and not paying attention to you, thats a refelection on your band not the crowd. Playing to friends and family will only tell you part of the story.

"Playing bars will be the real test on how good you really are."

Blue
 
#28
ewe2 said:
It's the way you're coming across about this, including how this guy is acting. Perhaps he's relying on your ignorance: perhaps he has a bad name around the local bars and doesn't want it known. Whatever his reasons, he's dead wrong.
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Maybe this guy is afraid of playing to a bar crowd, it's not easy. It's the real world when it comes to rock.

blue
 
#30
Manuel101 said:
The issue is that he is an incredible drummer, we rehearse in his house and he started the band. But he is one of those people who thinks they have all the answers. He can be difficult to deal with because he is very assertive with his point of view.
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He rehearses at his house, cool and very nice for him. Does he have you guys rehearsing 2-3 times a week?

Let me ask you a question, does he go out to see other bands and what their doing and the type of places they play and the type of crowds out there. Or is going out to see other bands playing bars beneath him?

blue
 
#31
Manuel101 said:
we usually bring about 20 to 30 people to our shows.
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I'm going to be a little blunt, so please don't take it harshly :)

Honestly, it seems like you guys are still really small time. My own originals group hasn't been going much longer than yours and we're averaging between 80-100 people a gig right now. We also don't have many quality songs recorded, so a lot of our growth has been due to us gigging out on a regular basis (at least 3-4 times a month for 14 months now). Considering how dead live music has become in a lot of cities in the US, you really can't be against playing in bars. Now you can discriminate against playing dives and other places where you're not likely to see much from a cost-benefit perspective, but you shouldn't be shunning all bars simply because your drummer is against it. It's hard to make it in music (especially rock music), and by refusing to play bars you're only making it that much harder to make an impact on people and to build your fan base. What reasons is your drummer giving for not playing bars? What research does he have that says it doesn't help? Because believe me, it has definitely helped my band.
 
#33
tekdiver500ft said:
Drummer's way off bass. The bar scene is a great place to get or grow an audience.
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It's also the only way to truly build your chops. Anyone can play well enough in a rehearsal when there is no audience to put pressure on you. Not as many people can get in front of people without having some serious 'deer in the headlight' moments happening while they perform.
 
#34
Some people think that just because they are assertive with their opinions that it somehow makes their opinions valid. That doesn't fly with me. You're not simply entitled to your opinions. You're only entitled to the opinions that you can cogently defend. And I'm sorry, going off of what your drummer has said here, he hasn't cogently defended his position. He's done the research? Show me the article published in a reputable peer-review journal that playing in a bar will somehow hurt a band's brand. I've never heard of an A&R rep sayin', "We love your band, but since you have played in bars, we're going to have to pass."

Now, I don't believe that bars and clubs are the best venues for all bands and styles of music, but that's not the issue. The issue seems to be some unfounded belief that playing in a bar will somehow reflect negatively on the band because then it will be seen as a "bar band." Newsflash, most projects don't go from the reharsal studio straight to the stadium stages.
 
#35
Manuel101 said:
god forbid i mention the beatles, he hates them (except george, he likes george). he is always complaining that they suck. there are also some strick regulations in terms of what we write, he is always saying things like "we cant do that, that is played out already" lol
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Yeah ok he's one of those I really want to hear this incredible music now. I have to hear the new George Harrison please post some clips or links.
 
#36
I also love how everyone's releasing EPs and CDs thirty years ago that would have really meant something now anyone with garage band and an internet connection can put music on the web and sell it please tell your drummer to get your band a major record deal then he can say the Beatles suck I would love to meet this musical genius I've met a few guys like this when they deliver my Papa Johns thank you OP for getting my fur up all I have to see is "Beatles Suck" and I redline :).
 
#37
Well, unless something changes, you guys have NO CHANCE AT ALL.

Playing your instruments well is not even close to a ticket to success.

Do you have any idea how many people in this world play their instruments incredibly well, probably better than any of you, and have NOT made it, and never will?

You have to be entertaining; you have to know how to market yourselves; you have to have great songs; you have to have a great singer or singers, and even with all those things going for you, you have to have LUCK and meet the right people!

The rock scene was oversaturated two decades ago, and has gotten exponentially worse, to the point that no one can come to anyone else's show, because everyone is in a band!

(that's a slight exaggeration, but you get the idea)

Ask your drummer to name a band who "made it" without playing in bars, and to tell you what he thinks YOUR PATH is, based on the success of that band.
 
#38
I just love to play! It doesn't matter where the Gig is. Some BL's just get way too wound up. Instead of just enjoying the ride,They focus too much on the destination. Have a meeting with the rest of the band and decide if you all want to do the Bar scene. You may have to find another drummer but......someone has to book Gigs. The person who books the Gig is technically the BL at least for that night.

On the flip side, if your drummer books Gigs that pay 5 times what the Bars pay then he may be on the right track.
 
#39
Manuel101 said:
That is a good point. we normally play a single cover and about 7 to 9 original at our shows. So if we were to play at a bar it would be about 4 covers and 5 originals?
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Wait a minute. You think you're gonna go into a bar and only play 9 songs? LOL, yeah in one set. Bar bands usually carry the club all night and don't share the stage with other acts. Not unless it's a "show club" and in that case it's really not your typical bar is it?

Maybe I have a complete misunderstanding of your market but if all you play is 9 songs period you aren't gonna be doing many "bar gigs" if any at all.
 
#40
Your drummer is wrong, pure and simple. The best gig I ever had was with an iconic Australian rock band who had just had a U.S top 10 hit, and most of the gigs we played were in clubs (albeit very big clubs, but still).

I'm not sure what sort of gigs you've played thus far, but 9 gigs in 10 months is very slow going. You need to be playing as much as possible, Friday and Saturday nights every week at a minimum. A rock band that won't play bar gigs is a contradiction in terms.

The easiest solution to your problem is to put the matter to a vote. If your drummer won't budge after that, then he's holding you back and has to go. There's simply no way you are ever going to get anywhere without playing bar gigs, as that's where 95% of live music is heard.

Regards,
Mark
 

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