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Shroeder cabs.... How stupidly loud can they be?

Q

quallabone

Aug 2, 2003
1,140
3
#1
Well I finally destroyed some voice coils in my SWR 410 and I'm looking for a new and louder cabinet. I have my jazz and quiet gig cabs looked after but I need something for this rock crap I've been playing lately.

I'll be using an Aggy pre/power setup or an Aguilar 359DB depending on the show and how willing to carry the 359 I am.

What Shroeder cabinet can keep up at high volumes? And how hard would it be to get one in Canada?

Thanks for any help.
 
#2
The 410 is really great if you want a very big, punchy sound.
If you want a really big, thicker sound, go with the 21012.

Either with good clean power will get very freakin' loud and still have great tone and seriously cut-through in a live band music venue.

Coming soon is a 3101212 that should come with a Surgeon General's warning.
 
#3
If you are looking for a single cab that will give you serious volume, great low end, tone all day , and smooth response throughout the frequency spectrum, try a Genz-Benz NeoX212. I have two of them, and run 2850 watts through them. They are incredible. I compared them to everything I could get my hands on, and nothing was close.
 
#6
I went to Jorg's house and tried his 410 and 21012 against my Aguilar GS410. The volume of the Schroeder's (even the 21012) blew my Aggie away (the GS410 seems to fart out easily). But, I still think the tone of the Aguilar GS410 is better than either of the Schroeder's. If your looking for volume I would definately go with Schroeder's. Plus their tone doesn't suck it's just not for me.
 
#7
I just had a chance to try some of Jorg's cabinets today at Pete Skjold's shop (more on that in the basses forum, but long story short, I put a deposit down on a custom bass from Pete!). Pete had the 1210, 1212, 21012 and 410 in stock (he's a dealer for Jorg). My favorite was the 21012, followed by the 1212. They are all very loud for their size, that is for sure! As for tone, they certainly do have a certain extent of colloration. In fact, at lower volumes, I noticed an overtone that was pretty much ever present somewaht droning, though certainly every note was clearly heard, and with good definition. There was just another tone layered over top. Not that this is good or bad, just an observation. I did notice that as you turn up the volume, and as you attack the strings harder, this "drone tone" moves to the background, and ultimately goes away. Interestingly, the louder/harder you play these cabs, the more "accurate" they seem to sound. They certainly enjoy being pushed hard, and were very impressive in this regard.

If you are looking for an alternative to your SWR 410 that will handle some serious volume, then I think that Jorg's cabs are well worth your consideration. You may note that I am a vocal fan of several other cab makers, and yes, those brands are worth your consideration as well. But to your immediate question, yes, I think that Schroeder cabs can get stupidly loud, and uphold their composure while doing it.

Hope this helps, Tom.
 
#8
tombowlus said:
I just had a chance to try some of Jorg's cabinets today at Pete Skjold's shop (more on that in the basses forum, but long story short, I put a deposit down on a custom bass from Pete!). Pete had the 1210, 1212, 21012 and 410 in stock (he's a dealer for Jorg). My favorite was the 21012, followed by the 1212. They are all very loud for their size, that is for sure! As for tone, they certainly do have a certain extent of colloration. In fact, at lower volumes, I noticed an overtone that was pretty much ever present somewaht droning, though certainly every note was clearly heard, and with good definition. There was just another tone layered over top. Not that this is good or bad, just an observation. I did notice that as you turn up the volume, and as you attack the strings harder, this "drone tone" moves to the background, and ultimately goes away. Interestingly, the louder/harder you play these cabs, the more "accurate" they seem to sound. They certainly enjoy being pushed hard, and were very impressive in this regard.

If you are looking for an alternative to your SWR 410 that will handle some serious volume, then I think that Jorg's cabs are well worth your consideration. You may note that I am a vocal fan of several other cab makers, and yes, those brands are worth your consideration as well. But to your immediate question, yes, I think that Schroeder cabs can get stupidly loud, and uphold their composure while doing it.

Hope this helps, Tom.
Click to expand...

I don't know if we are thinking of the same thing, but the first thing I noticed at low volumes was a midrange tone with the 1210. I actually added bass for some more thickness to get a good sound when playing alone. But this is the very quality that makes them cut thru so well in a band - what they are designed to do.

My impression of the cab is: this is not a studio monitor - it was designed to be a bass cab for the stage.
 
#9
Schwinn said:
I don't know if we are thinking of the same thing, but the first thing I noticed at low volumes was a midrange tone with the 1210. I actually added bass for some more thickness to get a good sound when playing alone. But this is the very quality that makes them cut thru so well in a band - what they are designed to do.

My impression of the cab is: this is not a studio monitor - it was designed to be a bass cab for the stage.
Click to expand...
Yes, the tone that I am thinking of is certainly a midrange tone, and yes, I agree about these being cabs designed for the stage. I'm sure that they cut through very well.
 
#10
My experience has really been quite different. I've been using one of the 1212's with my string bass powered by either an AI Focus or a WW Ultra, with big bands, in larger rooms or when I play outside. I play either a fine carved bass or an Eminence EUB, both of which are strung with gut strings or a combination of gut and Obligato's, which are quite gut like. I mention this because I want and get a very traditional jazz bass sound from this setup, i.e., my bass only louder. For small rooms/groups, I use either an AI New Yorker or Focus with Acme B-1 which puts out a very clear, uncolored sound.

I've found that the Schroeder setup sounds uncolored, clear and hifi at very low volumes as well, and when you turn it up, it just gets louder and louder until feedback associated with acoustic instruments becomes the limiter. It definitely cuts through well at any volume. I've found the 1212 to be much more natural sounding than the Bergantino HT-112 that I just sold. I would not describe the Schroeder as colored, certainly not in the sense that the Bergies, Aggies, GK's, Ampegs, are colored. One of the local guys from the list came over to hear my setup and he couldn't believe how accurate and natural sounding these cabinets are.

Of course, IMHO. YMMV.

Erik Hansen
Los Angeles
 
#11
SMASH said:
I'm unsure what you mean by the "overtone drone". Never heard one in my 1212, and have played it a lot solo'd and in a mix both at very low and very high volumes.

#1, 2, 7, 9, 10, 12 are through the Schroeder 1212. Different basses and styles, EQ on a clean amps (Thunderfunk and Mono Block II) almost dead flat. http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153947

As for not being suitable as a studio monitor, if you mean for flat listening then I guess that's true but none of my favourite bass cabs, being bass cabs, would be. I do plan to record via my 1212 in studio for an album project in the new year the above clips are demos for.
Click to expand...
The overtone may have had something to do with the room that we were in (ceramic tile floor and lots of windows, fairly small), but Pete heard it, too. Again, it wasn't something overly obnoxious, just something I noticed. Actually, I have heard similar overriding tones used on a number of major label recordings (there's an STP song I can't remember the name of which uses this to good effect). As I mentioned, I could still hear all of the notes across the fingerboard with good clarity.

And I did not say that Schroeder cabs were "not suitable as a studio monitor." I only said that they seemed to be voiced so that you would hear them cut through a mix in a live setting.
 
#12
I don't know, I guess opinions really do vary! Wow.

My 1210 is NOT flat or uncolored - IMO. But that's ok, I want a good cab that is made to be a good bass cab and that's what it is. I'm very happy with it.

Lownote, its possible our differences in preamp have something to do with our differences in opinion. I've tried it though ampeg and GK amps....so
 
#13
tombowlus said:
The overtone may have had something to do with the room that we were in (ceramic tile floor and lots of windows, fairly small), but Pete heard it, too. Again, it wasn't something overly obnoxious, just something I noticed. Actually, I have heard similar overriding tones used on a number of major label recordings (there's an STP song I can't remember the name of which uses this to good effect). As I mentioned, I could still hear all of the notes across the fingerboard with good clarity.

And I did not say that Schroeder cabs were "not suitable as a studio monitor." I only said that they seemed to be voiced so that you would hear them cut through a mix in a live setting.
Click to expand...
Tom, just curious what type of rig Pete was using with the cabs.
Personally, I've never noticed this with my rig & 410.
I'll listen for it tonight and see.
 
#14
lo-freq said:
Tom, just curious what type of rig Pete was using with the cabs.
Personally, I've never noticed this with my rig & 410.
I'll listen for it tonight and see.
Click to expand...
He has an F1-X and a BBE T-Max preamp, the Alembic is paired up with a Mackie power amp, and I can't recall what amp he had with the BBE. I heard it a bit more with the F1-X. It is not that loud, and if you hit the strings hard, or turn up the volume, you probably wouldn't hear it.
 
#15
tombowlus said:
He has an F1-X and a BBE T-Max preamp, the Alembic is paired up with a Mackie power amp, and I can't recall what amp he had with the BBE. I heard it a bit more with the F1-X. It is not that loud, and if you hit the strings hard, or turn up the volume, you probably wouldn't hear it.
Click to expand...
A bit off-topic, did you hear enough of the BMax-T to get an impression of its sound?
What cha think?
 
#16
After rereading my posts and some of the responses thereto, I should probably clarify just a few more things.

The 1210 actually had the least coloration, to my ears, of the four cabs I tried. It also didn't have as much low end presence, though. I should have had Pete play me the 1210 and the 1212 together. I bet they would sound great!

This overtone that I am talking about is not hit you over the head obvious. In fact, Pete hadn't noticed it until I pointed it out to him. And in some ways, it's kind of cool. FWIW, I also think that the old SVT stacks had a "drone tone" which helped define their sound - though again, I am not saying that Jorg's cabs sound like the old Ampegs - they are totally different cabs - I am just trying to explain how I hear things.

While I am not a slap/pop player, I got to hear Pete do some pretty amazing things, and let me tell you these cabs really like the dynamic demands of agressive slap/pop. As I mentioned, the harder you hit, the more they like it and the better they sound. I do get fairly agressive in my fingerstyle playing (starting my "career" on upright, I am just used to yanking the strings pretty hard), and where some cabs will sound stressed when I do this at volume, the Schroders loved it.

Also, as mentioned, Pete's amplification was different from what I am used to (though I have heard the F1-X before), I was playing through basses I had never heard before, and I was not able to make a direct A/B comparison to any of my current cabs, so my opinion is limited to initial observations, and not an exhaustive comparison.

All in all, my experience did nothing whatsoever to diminish my expectations of Jorg's fine cabs, and did much to impress me. And while I said I wouldn't be trading in my current cabs, if I were in the market for a new cab, and I was looking at paying new cab prices (not used), I would definitely put Schroeders on my short list.
 
#18
The last time I was at Pete's, the BBE BMax T was hooked up to a Carvin DCM600. I'm running one with a DCM1000 into my 21012. I have heard people talking about the piano like clarity of these cabinets and that's something I noticed when I played mine for the first time last Sunday. I found that I was playing at a lower volume in rehearsal but the bass had more presence in the room. Everyone could plainly hear the bass as opposed to my old rig where once you stepped out from directly in front of it, it didn't sound as loud.
 
#19
(Only appropriate that one of my first posts on this site should be not too far on the heels of Tom Bowlus, as he's the one who brought me back! Thanks, Tom... just what I needed -- another distraction! :) )

I just wanted to chip in on my experience with the Schroeder cabs so far. I stopped by Basses Electric & Acoustic on Thursday and picked up a 1210 to try out. (A note on the shop: I immediately liked Juan, and hung out there for a while. Turns out we've got a lot of mutual friends here in the Sacramento area, and it was good to make the connection. He's got a great selection of gear and basses, as others have noted here, and he really has a great attitude and philosophy -- I think he will be a nice asset/resource for the bass community for years to come.)

I compared the 1210 to my Bergantino HT112 & EX112 that I've been using as my main rig for the last couple years. First of all, let me tell you the set-up... Amplification: oddly enough, I'm currently without a preamp in my rack, as I sold my Alembic too quickly while the lead I had on another pre fell through. So I tried the cabs both with my old Eden Traveler, which has filled in on the last few gigs for me after many years of non-use, as well as a Vintech X73 pre I pulled from my project studio, going into my QSC PLX-3002 power amp.

Basses: Fender J, Fender P, Sadowsky 5, Sadowsky P-J 5 fretted basses, and Turner Electroline 5 & Warmoth/Dolan/Frankenbass 4-string fretless basses.

When I first A/B'ed the cabs using the Eden head, the Schroeder sounded as loud as the two Bergantinos, and the tone really wasn't a whole lot different -- the Bergs were a little rounder sounding, the Schroeder a little meatier, and that was about it. I thought, OK, big deal! Then when I played through the Vintech, it was like night and day -- suddenly the cabinets sounded VERY different. Both great sounds, but very different nonetheless. So from then on, I stuck with the Vintech+QSC as my "reference" rig to expose all the differences between the cabs.

Again, volume-wise, the 1210 was about the same loudness as the Bergs (any difference to me sounded more like different peaks in response rather than different overall volume changes). But the key here is that the Bergantinos were each using a side of the QSC, while the 1210 was using a single side (i.e., I did not bridge the amp into the 1210). The Schroeder got painfully loud in a hurry when I cranked it up. (My 8-year-old daughter called down from upstairs and said I was "really being too loud now".) The tone stayed consistent at high volume, though, which is very nice.

I first tried my J bass, which is the bass that is most "me". I had to say, I preferred the Bergantinos for their very full, round, hi-fi sound -- I just love that tone, as it sounds like a slightly-more-earthy Marcus Miller kinda thing to me. The 1210 just bumped the mids in a way I didn't like very much.

With the P bass and Sadowsky P-J, the 1210 started to come on a little stronger. Not having my band immediately handy, I put on some Motown CDs and cranked them up, and played along, and loved the sound I got out of the Schroeder. The Bergs still sounded good, but didn't seem to push the Precision sound as much. I thought, OK, maybe we're on to something here...

Then I tried the fretless basses. Oh my gawd!!! THAT was what had been missing from my sound. I always wrestled with EQ to try to get a good fretless sound out of my rig, and could get something decent, and didn't worry too much because very few of my gigs actually call for fretless. Now here I went from the Bergantinos to the Schroeder, and suddenly the fretlesses just totally came to life. All the mwah, the tight bridge-PU funky Jaco thing, the Zeta-bass like sound on the Turner (with the piezo) -- everything was there, with no tweak of the EQ!

Now I knew I had a problem... which cabinet(s) to keep? Back to the J-bass, I started playing through the Schroeder, this time experimenting with EQ. I found that by bringing up the bass, I could easily add most of that full bottom I was missing. Cutting the mids slightly helped too to bring back the tone that I got so easily from the Bergantinos.

I don't know if you all do this too, but I find that after the initial evaluation of listening to the tone I'm getting right when I plug in and fire something up, I then tend to forget about it as I start getting into playing, and then the tone just always becomes great. That happened with playing the J through the Schroeder for about 20 minutes straight, and I realized I was sold. It sounded wonderful. When I then went back to the Bergantinos, I remembered, oh yeah, that tone still is a bit better for the J sound. But not a lot better, so I will be going with the Schroeder. I can't wait to try it out live (this weekend will be the first opportunity).

And of course, I had to try this: I played the 1210 and the EX112 together. That kicked ass!!! (1210 and HT112 together didn't sound so hot.) The EX112 added the low end that was missing from the 1210. Too bad they don't stack nicer... I'm curious now to hear how another 1210 or a 1212 would sound in addition, in terms of rounding out the bottom end.

Hardware-wise, I definitely give the edge to Schroeder. The back panel seems very solid, and the 1/4" inputs are metal. I've always disliked the flimsy plastic inputs on the Bergantinos, as I quickly lost one nut and washer on a gig right after I bought the cabs; then, during my plugging and unplugging for this test, the other one fell off and the inputs did the turtle-head thing and disappeared into the cabinet. I had to unscrew the back panel to get them out, and then when putting the plastic nut and washer back on, they had to be carefully tightened, or they would just pop off again (from being too tight!). Definitely not a good situation.

One *very* minor concern on the Schroeder I noticed was the tone adjustment on the rear panel: the knob protrudes a little bit beyond the back plane of the cabinet, so if something ever smacked flat against the back, the knob & pot would take the brunt of the blow. The locking corners of the cabinet would keep this from happening if it fell flat on its back, but you just never know when gear is being loaded and jostled around. I'm not too worried about it, but it seems a shorter knob would be a good idea (never thought I'd say that!).

Well, there's my 2 cents -- I guess I'm officially on the Schroeder bandwagon. Thanks to everyone on this site who inspired me to try it out! (And thanks to Juan for hooking me up.)

Sean Mc
 

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