Well Cherie, I sympathize with your prediciment, but I cant help but feel "business is business". Have a ghost drummer come in to try and salvage your recordings and hard earned money, and tell your drummer in the most sensitive, friendly way you can that he doesnt fit the band. The truth sometimes hurts, but sometimes the truth can bring about a change, a change for the good, for his playing and his lifestyle, but thats not the bands concern. Your sound and the bands overall harmony are whats important in the end. Good luck, you sound too professional to me to be "held back" by a drummer who doesnt get it. You can always be his friend.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Sigh. Drummer trouble.
- Thread starter txbasschik
- Start date
I'd have to agree. I can barely play drums and I'm MUCH better than him. But I'd never consider taking a drum gig at my current level. After watching those videos, you couldn't pay me enough to work with him. He owns some drums, that's it. Might be a nice guy but he's clearly not a drummer, sorry.
I got to agree with Ken. I watched the vid and he is playing the melody at times. As a bass playa, I am no expert on percussion so I had my son, a drumming wonderkid, take a look at it. He noted the melody-playing but the most accurate piece of his review - "He's random." Unfortunately, this means two things and they are both bad. First, his meter is variable when it shouldn't be. Second, he means there is no real drumline. This would give him much trouble in the studio as no track would be similar enough. Without some level of predictability, expectancy, whatever, how can the bass player and drummer hook in and groove? If you are just jamming, fooling around and the drummer wants to experiment then fine, you'll lose the groove at times but no worries. If money is on the line, different story. He also said, "Rough." Why drummers speak in one-word sentences, I don't know but allow mw to translate. He meant that the variability of the drumming pervades the rest of the group's efforts and sound. It boils down to the drummer has to change or the drummer has to be changed.
Cherie, you are 30 minutes from South Austin using MoPac and 183. Drummers are available. You know some already. What I saw on the video would only be corrected with effort and buy-in from your drummer and apparently you have neither. So your dilemma is to salvage the drummer's feelings while tolerating mediocrity (perhaps for good) versus improving the sound of the band with a better drummer while tolerating any guilt you feel about the pain your old drummer will experience.
You have 10 minutes to decide. Startinnngggg......NOW!
Yeah...its bad. Its actually worse than I thought. Its like watching a game tape, after your team lost. Every flaw shows up in high relief.
Well, Guitarist and I are going to fire him. We decided for certain last night.
I need to take those videos down. They'll hurt us. I gotta run some errands, and then down they come.
Cherie
Well, Guitarist and I are going to fire him. We decided for certain last night.
I need to take those videos down. They'll hurt us. I gotta run some errands, and then down they come.
Cherie
Yup. I watched the video performance of Cocaine and that's exactly what he's doing. No groove. It must be awfully difficult for you to play along with that. Was he drunk during the performance?
Just watched all the videos before they got taken down. Yeah, he's not great. Reminds me of a drummer I had who would practice metal fills for 10 minutes straight while the rest of us played a song. (We were not a metal band.) Good guy. We cut him loose and never looked back.
Cherie: This may come as little consolation, but, IMO, *you* rock pretty effin hard.
--Bomb
Cherie: This may come as little consolation, but, IMO, *you* rock pretty effin hard.
--Bomb
It is almost impossible to play along with a drummer doing that. The drummer really is random. As a fellow drummer I understand the urge to add more complex parts and "fill in the space" but even in a three piece band the song rocks harder if the drummer just sits back and gives the parts space.
What you need in a drummer is someone who is going to give you that fat backbeat and can carry a shuffle. Beyond that everything else is unnecessary
Wow. Just watched the vids on myspace. I think the drummer's problems would be solved overnight if he just stopped playing the melody on the kick. If he held a steady beat on the kick, his fills would fall into place.
(Maybe, if you don't want to fire him, just remove the beater from his kick and pipe in a tracked kick? Naw, just kidding.)
(Maybe, if you don't want to fire him, just remove the beater from his kick and pipe in a tracked kick? Naw, just kidding.)
Thats still no excuse for not playing well in the studio.
He did, indeed, totally spazz out in the studio. He's better, live. Except on originals.
I just hate this. I really do like the guy.
As anal as it sounds, you can't look at it from a personal point of view, its a business and must have a professional outcome. I've had to fire many people that I've liked over the years. Some we're great live and sucked in the studio, but the way I see it, there is no excuse for choking in the studio either, if you can cut it live then you can IMO/IME cut it in the studio. In fact the studio leaves you more room for error and less pressure since there is no live audience to hear a bad note when you hit one.
I say can him.
You made the mistake of taking on this guy.
You made assumptions about the ability of this guy.
Go and deal with your mistake.
You and your guitarist know what you have to do. Don't look for support(or justification) from randomers on the internet. Go and do it and move on.
You made assumptions about the ability of this guy.
Go and deal with your mistake.
You and your guitarist know what you have to do. Don't look for support(or justification) from randomers on the internet. Go and do it and move on.
Sad but true: There are far more bad drummers than good ones (bass players and guitarists too). I've dealt with things from roller coaster tempos to no groove to 80's hair band feel on everything... But when you find a good one, there's nothing better.
Well sir, if you read the thread above this point, you would know that I have *already admitted to every sin on your list*, and have *already said we would fire the guy*. So...why so negative? Why be so snarky? What is your point here? Just to be cranky? I can ask anything I want to, to anyone, any time. You being ugly to me will not ever stop that, I guarantee it. Go take a nap or something, until your disposition improves.
Cherie
I agree. But, he won't do that. So...he's going to have to go. The more I watch the vids, the more I feel confirmed in that. Guitarist and I decided for certain last night. I am not looking forward to practice, but...it has to be done.
Cherie
Well, he'd had a couple of beers, but he certainly wasn't drunk.
It has become harder and harder to play with him over time. He just gets worse and worse.
It has become rather like riding a push-me-pull-you. Tugged in both directions, going nowhere.
He's fired. He doesn't know it yet, but he will early next week.
Cherie
I got to agree with Ken. I watched the vid and he is playing the melody at times. As a bass playa, I am no expert on percussion so I had my son, a drumming wonderkid, take a look at it. He noted the melody-playing but the most accurate piece of his review - "He's random." Unfortunately, this means two things and they are both bad. First, his meter is variable when it shouldn't be. Second, he means there is no real drumline. This would give him much trouble in the studio as no track would be similar enough. Without some level of predictability, expectancy, whatever, how can the bass player and drummer hook in and groove? If you are just jamming, fooling around and the drummer wants to experiment then fine, you'll lose the groove at times but no worries. If money is on the line, different story. He also said, "Rough." Why drummers speak in one-word sentences, I don't know but allow mw to translate. He meant that the variability of the drumming pervades the rest of the group's efforts and sound. It boils down to the drummer has to change or the drummer has to be changed.
Cherie, you are 30 minutes from South Austin using MoPac and 183. Drummers are available. You know some already. What I saw on the video would only be corrected with effort and buy-in from your drummer and apparently you have neither. So your dilemma is to salvage the drummer's feelings while tolerating mediocrity (perhaps for good) versus improving the sound of the band with a better drummer while tolerating any guilt you feel about the pain your old drummer will experience.
You have 10 minutes to decide. Startinnngggg......NOW!
"Random"...yes, that's a good description! Guitarist expresses it and inconsistency, but I like "random" better.
He's fired. Guitarist went to see a drummer we know and work with at our jam to ask if he would do the studio tracks. We have two gigs next weekend, but we can pull them off with a sub if we just don't do our originals this week. It'll be ok.
Thanks!
Cherie
Just watched all the videos before they got taken down. Yeah, he's not great. Reminds me of a drummer I had who would practice metal fills for 10 minutes straight while the rest of us played a song. (We were not a metal band.) Good guy. We cut him loose and never looked back.
Cherie: This may come as little consolation, but, IMO, *you* rock pretty effin hard.
--Bomb
Thanks very much!
He's just not going to work out. When someone gets worse over time...I think we can't fix it. I hope he doesn't do anything stupid, to others or to himself, but we can't go forever, worrying about it. Makes me sad, but...its done. He's gone.
Cherie
Ric5
Inactive
- Jan 29, 2008
- 29,772
- 30,452
- Disclosures
- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
Thanks for all of your advice and support. I *hate* firing people. Its why I never wanted to be a supervisor in my old day job. But...we have to fire this drummer. He gets worse, instead of improving. He's dragging us down.
Sometimes you need your friends to help you get up the nerve to do something difficult. I am very grateful to have good friends in here.
Cherie
Sometimes you need your friends to help you get up the nerve to do something difficult. I am very grateful to have good friends in here.
Cherie
So I'm a "randomer"? What the hell is a randomer? I mean it sounds cool and all but I'd just like to know more about it so I keep doing it right. I might use it for a band name. Something like Billy Chance & the Randomers. Dibs!
I believe a "randomer" is someone/something that is more random than random. Thus, if I was random, you would be randomer than I.
