Sigh. Drummer trouble.

[txbasschik]

not to sound like an *** but you guys couldnt figure out that he sucked before you went into the studio?

i don't know. before spending thousands in the studio, we are practicing as a band making sure everyone can play their parts. that way you don't waste money.

and that's a big FU to the guy who recorded you for not saying at the time that he isn't in the groove and is off time or whatever. every time i've been to a studio the engineer will be the first to say something sounds weird/bad.

Well, he wasn't sucking before. He's gotten worse over time.

Also, I feel, personally, like we went to the studio too soon. We weren't truly tight yet. We'd only been a band a little more than three months at the time. We'd only just learned some the songs. I wanted to just do some recordings in the Guitarist's home studio, use those for a demo/MySpace posting, get some work and get tighter, and *then* go to a "real" studio. Guitarist felt confident we could do the job, and went ahead and paid for the time.

Which was clearly an error.

The Drummer never told us that he'd never been in the studio before, either. We assumed, with his age and the amount of time he'd been playing, that he know how to act. He didn't. He treated it like a party the first night, and then was a nervous wreck the whole rest of the time. The engineer did tell him there were problems, and critiqued him pretty hard. I spent every break talking to him, trying to keep his attitude positive and discussing ways we could work together to solve the problems.

But it didn't work, and we shouldn't have assumed anything, I guess.

Cherie

 

[lunarpollen]

"Dumbing down the part"??? That would imply there is a "part" to begin with, and from your description of his drumming on the recordings it seems that there is no solid drum part to it. Maybe your reply to his comment should be "What 'part'? You can't dumb down what doesn't exist. Some weak meandering doesn't = a 'part'..."

 

[txbasschik]

not to sound like an *** but you guys couldnt figure out that he sucked before you went into the studio?

i don't know. before spending thousands in the studio, we are practicing as a band making sure everyone can play their parts. that way you don't waste money.

and that's a big FU to the guy who recorded you for not saying at the time that he isn't in the groove and is off time or whatever. every time i've been to a studio the engineer will be the first to say something sounds weird/bad.

Oh, and, being thankful for small favors, it was not thousands. Six hundred, precisely. That doesn't help the Guitarist any, being as he's out the money. But at least we got out before we'd spent just gobs and truckloads.

Which is why I told him that next time, let's just do four tunes at the home studio and see how *that* goes, first. Yes, its more work. But its also free, and we'll know what we're working with before we go spend beaucoup dollars.

Cherie

 

[Ed Goode]

Cheri, I normally avoid generalizations, but in this case you're talking about a drummer. I've yet to meet ANY drummer that didn't fit the stereotypes we love to mock all of the time, but in spite of the apparent similarities they all share, they do have a basic primary function of keeping time and establishing a "driving" beat. If your guy can not do these very basic things then IMO it's time for him to hit the road ....

I personally can tolerate a lot from a drummer, but no groove and/or bad time is not acceptable. He might be the nicest guy in the world but he has to be able to play up to your level. The weakest link in any band should never be the drummer ....

 

[txbasschik]

"Dumbing down the part"??? that would imply there is a "part" to begin with, and from your description of his drumming on the recordings is that there is no solid drum part to it. Maybe your reply to his comment should be "What 'part'? You can't dumb down what doesn't exist. Some weak meandering doesn't = a 'part'..."

It was just...so *weird*, man! I don't know it if was fear, or depression, or alcohol, or all of that, but he just could not get it together in the studio. Just plain bizarre. I don't know how else to describe it.

I've been watching gig footage today, making video clips to use for a demo, so we'll have *something* to give venues. The drumming on the originals is not very good. On the covers, its perfectly fine.

Cherie

 

[txbasschik]

Cheri, I normally avoid generalizations, but in this case you're talking about a drummer. I've yet to meet ANY drummer that didn't fit the stereotypes we love to mock all of the time, but in spite of the apparent similarities they all share, they do have a basic primary function of keeping time and establishing a "driving" beat. If your guy can not do these very basic things then IMO it's time for him to hit the road ....

I personally can tolerate a lot from a drummer, but no groove and/or bad time is not acceptable. He might be the nicest guy in the world but he has to be able to play up to your level. The weakest link in any band should never be the drummer ....

The originals are his weakest songs. He's fine on covers. On the originals, he doesn't seem to be able to really get in the groove. It feels like a tug-of-war, trying to keep the song together.

Cherie

 

[geoff_in_nc]

Well, he wasn't sucking before. He's gotten worse over time.

That statement combined with earlier ones referencing (potential) alcohol problems..... Maybe I'm making BIG unwarranted leaps here, but it doesn't sound good.

You sound like you're wanting the band to be professional here. He's not. I would probably be more wishy-washy if I was in your situation, but looking from the outside in... he needs to leave.

Whatever you choose, best of luck to you and your band.

 

[Ed Goode]

FWIW, we canned our long-term drummer in January of last year because he was a stone-cold alcoholic and was screwing up big time .... not his playing, but all of his actions at the gig were impacted by his drinking. He would get quite loud, annoyed the clients, was always late to the gigs, always "lost" when we came off a break, played too loud the more he drank, etc.

We loved the guy like a brother, but he didn't want to help himself so, in turn, there was nothing we could do to help him. But even with all of that, he always had solid time and a great groove, so we put up with the rest of it (probably for far too long). Unfortunately, he just died 3 weeks ago, his death directly related to his drinking.

I guess what I'm saying is that even with someone we loved like family, who did play well when he sat behind the kit, we realized that we had to move on from him. As much as we loved him as a person, I can assure you that if he didn't do the playing thing very well we would have cut him loose well before we finally did.

The drummer needs to be a professional, not someone you drag along with you .... good luck with your decisions ...

 

[ErebusBass]

I had a very similar drummer a couple years ago, right down to the emotional issues and substance abuse problem.

He was decent live, but in the studio he was really sloppy. We ended up recording with him twice. The second time we spent probably 16 hours getting all of the drums recorded, and they were unusable. After that I really had no choice, I had to let him go.

He did not take it well. He flipped out, asked me why I was firing him, and then wouldn't even listen to me when I tried to explain. It was rough, I liked the guy, but it had to be done. He picked up his drums the next day and that was the end of that. The band was much better off in the long term. We wasted A LOT of money on those two recordings, which ultimately went in the trash. We spent about a year working with him between the recordings, and he really didn't get any better. I think you're making the right choice, and good luck. I hope your drummer takes it with a little bit more dignity than mine did.

 

[Easy8]

Firing a band member can be the hardest thing to do, but it sounds like you know what has to be done.

We've gone through six drummers in the last year (had to fire two of them) for just about every reason you can imagine. Turns out the one we really like has serious health issues that severely limit his energy and stamina.

We play a lot of the same venues and our KB player lives in your area, so PM me if you need help finding a good drummer.

 

[xshawnxearthx]

Oh, and, being thankful for small favors, it was not thousands. Six hundred, precisely. That doesn't help the Guitarist any, being as he's out the money. But at least we got out before we'd spent just gobs and truckloads.

Which is why I told him that next time, let's just do four tunes at the home studio and see how *that* goes, first. Yes, its more work. But its also free, and we'll know what we're working with before we go spend beaucoup dollars.

Cherie

$600 is still a lot of money. i would just get rid of him. explain the situation before you do it and see what he says. if his playing has gotten worse over time, then either it's just not working with you guys as a band, or he doesn't care anymore.

 

[Bass Viking]

Dumbing down your parts in the studio is what the pros do. Check out the Daniel Adair (Nickleback) interview in this month's Modern Drummer, for example. He talks about it.

+1. I've noticed from doing home recordings that keeping the parts simple will help them gel better.

 

[IvanMike]

IMHO, the drummer should be one of the best if not the best member of the band. If the drummer isn't on, you're going to have trouble as a bass player, if the two of you aren't locked in and holding down the groove rock solid, the rest of the band might as well stay home.

Add to that a possible substance abuse problem and it's time to part ways.

 

[txbasschik]

FWIW, we canned our long-term drummer in January of last year because he was a stone-cold alcoholic and was screwing up big time .... not his playing, but all of his actions at the gig were impacted by his drinking. He would get quite loud, annoyed the clients, was always late to the gigs, always "lost" when we came off a break, played too loud the more he drank, etc.

We loved the guy like a brother, but he didn't want to help himself so, in turn, there was nothing we could do to help him. But even with all of that, he always had solid time and a great groove, so we put up with the rest of it (probably for far too long). Unfortunately, he just died 3 weeks ago, his death directly related to his drinking.

I guess what I'm saying is that even with someone we loved like family, who did play well when he sat behind the kit, we realized that we had to move on from him. As much as we loved him as a person, I can assure you that if he didn't do the playing thing very well we would have cut him loose well before we finally did.

The drummer needs to be a professional, not someone you drag along with you .... good luck with your decisions ...

That is very, very sad. I am sorry for your loss! Drummer or no, he was still your friend.

But, you are right...we'll have to move on.

I've put four gig videos up on myspace.com/riostar1015, which is my personal page, in the Videos section. Y'all check 'em out. Two originals, two covers. This gig took place two weeks after we recorded.

Cherie

 

[txbasschik]

Firing a band member can be the hardest thing to do, but it sounds like you know what has to be done.

We've gone through six drummers in the last year (had to fire two of them) for just about every reason you can imagine. Turns out the one we really like has serious health issues that severely limit his energy and stamina.

We play a lot of the same venues and our KB player lives in your area, so PM me if you need help finding a good drummer.

Thanks very much! I'll PM you tomorrow or Monday.

Fixing to head out and drum up some work for us. Hubby's band is at Junior's tonight, so Guitarist and I are going to hit a few venues, then go over there.

Cherie

 

[2x4strgkramers]

wow that drummer is aweful no meter at all.

 

[txbasschik]

wow that drummer is aweful no meter at all.

I just finished putting one of our originals up on my Profile in MySpace, and then I watched it, and...

Oi. I can't promote that to venues at all. He *is* actually beating the melody out on the kick!

I knew we didn't quite, you know, mesh...

I've been so busy just editing the between-song stuff out of the clips, I didn't really *listen*...

OMG.

Cherie

 

[hbarcat]

I just watched the video on your myspace page and at the risk of being rude, that drummer is terrible. It's more than just sloppy timing - he clearly has no idea what he is doing and he does not belong in a gigging band.

IMO.

 

[kennydakid]

I just watched your cover of Cocaine and I agree about the terrible thing. This is a song that my band does live (my band where I am a Drummer) and he has no concept of a drum part. Just tell him to literally play the most simple thing he can possibly think of and then can him when you can find better.

I mean I am not a great drummer but I am not as bad as that. Good luck in finding a replacement. I mean he has moments where he doesn't sound bad then he goes off the rocker somewhere and just sounds lost

 

[Rocker949]

IMHO, the drummer should be one of the best if not the best member of the band. If the drummer isn't on, you're going to have trouble as a bass player, if the two of you aren't locked in and holding down the groove rock solid, the rest of the band might as well stay home.

Add to that a possible substance abuse problem and it's time to part ways.

I agree that the drummer probably should be the best member of a band, but a great drummer may be the rarest thing on earth. I've been able to find a few before, but probably only as a result of divine intervention and I'm not even trying to be funny.