Signal equalization?

[Ithilome]

A local church has a rotating volunteer band. Volunteers are encouraged to bring their own instrument, so the bass player plays through their bass (that's great since it's what the player is familiar with). The bass plugs into a direct box/pedal (at the moment the pedal is a tone hammer). The problem that results is that the soundboard is setup to work with whatever bass was used in the prior week, which may or may not be similar to the current week's bass. Often the bass's sound is drastically different (and depending on who's running sound that week. They may not realize this until the first song, though that's improving). Since the band and sound guy are typically volunteers with varying experience levels (aside from the Worship Leader who's on staff) I'm wondering if anyone knows of a soundboard setting, a box/pedal, or something that would get the soundboard to accommodate the bass within reason?

The point of all this is to help ease the load on volunteers, so anyone can help with band/sound regardless of their experience level, though I'm guessing the end solution will be for someone to have enough knowledge/experience to get the bass sound to a point where it's decent so that rehearsal can continue.













problem is that the bass doesn't sound the same depending on whose playing and whose the sound guy(s). This won't fully solve the problem but help it, is thereIs there something to make
Curious, I can't be the first person to have this problem

 

[Roland GR 88]

The Tone Hammer isn’t a very intuitive pedal. The controls are highly interactive and reasonable expectations aren’t easily met unless you know it well.
I would suggest a simple D.I. without a preamp and set the bass channel strip at unity gain with the eq knobs at noon every week so any adjustments are done where it matters most and are as simple as low, mid and high.

 

[ardgedee]

You can't do a soundcheck before service?

 

[AK Bass Guy]

Something like this might be handy for your application.
Just leave the mixing console neutral and shape the tone at the preamp pedal.

When I go ampless I use one of these.

 

[Wasnex]

The solution could be fairly easy.

What you need to do:

1. Set an appointment to dial in the sound. This means getting time on stage with a willing and able audio tech. Even better if you can do it with a full band.
2. Dial in your sound.
3. Document relevant settings on the ToneHammer DI and mixer
   1. If the mixer is analog, document the gain and EQ settings on the channel strip.
   2. If the mixer is digital, save a snapshot of the channel strip. This will need to be recalled next time you play. FYI, Some mixers save EQ and dynamics, but not the input gain/head amp setting.
4. Before you play, all of the necessary settings must be dialed in. Probably best if you learn how to do everything yourself since you will be working a different audio techs who may not have the necessary skill or knowledge.
5. Experiment over time to make incremental improvements, gain experience, and learn what works.

Something else you need to know. Mixers only have one EQ on each channel. Normally the channel EQ is used to adjust how each instrument sounds in the house mix.

If you use a monitor on stage, the signal is routed back to you from the bass channel on an Aux Send. The Aux Send should be set pre fader. Pre fader allows the audio tech to adjust your signal for the house mix without impacting you level in the monitor.

Many mixers also allow the audio tech to select where in the channel strip the Aux Send signal is sampled. The main choice is between pre EQ and post EQ. If the Aux Send is set to pre EQ the signal going to your monitor will be flat and unprocessed. Not ideal, but you have a preamp on stage to dial in a sound. If the Aux Send is set to post EQ, whatever adjustments are made so you sound good in the house mix will also be applied to your monitor mix. This may seem preferable, but the reality is the house mix and monitor mixes often require drastically different EQ.

If possible I suggest trying it with the bass channel's Aux Send configured pre fader and pre EQ. You may need to get permission or even convince someone why this is beneficial. If you are successful, then dial in the ToneHammer before the audio tech dials in your sound for the house. Just keep in mind you may need to moderate your setting if they are so extreme that the audio tech can't work with them.

Also, try to avoid fiddling with the ToneHammer's settings during performance. Any change you make will impact every mix that has bass. So the goal should be to dial in a usable sound and level and then lock it down. If you must make changes, be as subtle as possible.

This may seem long and complicated, but it sort of just scratching the surface. There may be other factors I have not addressed that cause problems/inconsistency. Ultimately you may simply need to accept the reality of working in this sort of setting and lower your expectations.

Feel free to ask questions; otherwise, good luck!

 

[dreamadream99]

Separate board channel for each bassist.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

A local church has a rotating volunteer band. Volunteers are encouraged to bring their own instrument, so the bass player plays through their bass (that's great since it's what the player is familiar with). The bass plugs into a direct box/pedal (at the moment the pedal is a tone hammer). The problem that results is that the soundboard is setup to work with whatever bass was used in the prior week, which may or may not be similar to the current week's bass. Often the bass's sound is drastically different (and depending on who's running sound that week. They may not realize this until the first song, though that's improving). Since the band and sound guy are typically volunteers with varying experience levels (aside from the Worship Leader who's on staff) I'm wondering if anyone knows of a soundboard setting, a box/pedal, or something that would get the soundboard to accommodate the bass within reason?

The point of all this is to help ease the load on volunteers, so anyone can help with band/sound regardless of their experience level, though I'm guessing the end solution will be for someone to have enough knowledge/experience to get the bass sound to a point where it's decent so that rehearsal can continue. problem is that the bass doesn't sound the same depending on whose playing and whose the sound guy(s). This won't fully solve the problem but help it, is thereIs there something to make
Curious, I can't be the first person to have this problem

“depending on who is running the board that week”

I’m going to suggest this is more of a detriment to consistent sound than a different bass going into the DI. It’d pretty hard to teach someone how to
“Hear” what they are doing. Then you have personal preferences. Some people like a lot of bass. Others, my wife for instance, would rather listen to music from a tiny hand held transistor radio.

 

[Pings Bass]

the problem is you get this kind of unpredictability with supposed pros, too. I recently played a gig where the house sound tech swore they knew the venue really well, then proceeded to find the offending feedback frequencies by boosting until it squealed, then announcing triumphantly they'd found the frequency. Then they supposedly saved the scene before soundchecking the next band, but when we went on to play our set every thing was squealing again.

So in these amateur hour scenarios, even with "pros", simple is better. I vote for this:

a simple D.I. without a preamp and set the bass channel strip at unity gain with the eq knobs at noon every week so any adjustments are done where it matters most and are as simple as low, mid and high.

 

[Jefenator]

I find my best bet is to bring a bass that requires as little EQ as possible (ideally zero) to mix well. I've had good luck with my J-bass, P-bass and a 5-string that cops that "Fender" vibe quite well.
The sound crew will have to work extra hard to muck that up. Sometimes they do. Sometimes other musicians give them plenty of help. That's on them AFAIC.
The DI with an intuitive EQ could be a good idea, but it could also backfire with a ham-fisted bassist, or in a room where the sound onstage doesn't jibe with what's needed in the mains.

 

[michael_t]

The Tone Hammer isn’t a very intuitive pedal. The controls are highly interactive and reasonable expectations aren’t easily met unless you know it well.
I would suggest a simple D.I. without a preamp and set the bass channel strip at unity gain with the eq knobs at noon every week so any adjustments are done where it matters most and are as simple as low, mid and high.

One of the church campuses I play at regularly has the SansAmp BDDI v.2. I used the Radial J48 yesterday just as an experiment, and you know what, I think my bass actually sounded better that way as the volunteer sound tech seemed to have an easier time with it.

 

[S-Bigbottom]

Get rid of the Tone Hammer on stage.

Bassist arrives, turns Tone Hammer knobs, now whatever is set in the house mix is gone. Have to readjust.
They took all the mids out and you can not put them back in.

 

[sawzalot]

There's no "set and forget" setting that will work with every bassist and/or every bass. There's no substitute for a soundcheck and knowledgeable hands at the sound console.

 

[WayneP]

I also agree to use a simple DI with nothing the bass player can adjust. Then all the sound tech-of-the-week has to deal with from the bass player-of-the-week is his relative level in the mix, and maybe some basic EQ. With rotating players, things are going to sound different from one week to the next. It is what it is.

If you have a digital console, then the suggestion to save a setting for each player is a good idea.

You didn’t mention stage monitoring, so I assume that is dealt with by other means and not necessarily from the sound tech.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Make Your Own Cables: A How-To Guide Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Official Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Official Heartfield Club #36
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
Administrator, Official Pre-Gibson Tobias Owners Club
Administrator, Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Make Your Own Cables: A How-To Guide

 

[/\/\3phist0]

A local church has a rotating volunteer band. Volunteers are encouraged to bring their own instrument, so the bass player plays through their bass (that's great since it's what the player is familiar with). The bass plugs into a direct box/pedal (at the moment the pedal is a tone hammer). The problem that results is that the soundboard is setup to work with whatever bass was used in the prior week, which may or may not be similar to the current week's bass. Often the bass's sound is drastically different (and depending on who's running sound that week. They may not realize this until the first song, though that's improving). Since the band and sound guy are typically volunteers with varying experience levels (aside from the Worship Leader who's on staff) I'm wondering if anyone knows of a soundboard setting, a box/pedal, or something that would get the soundboard to accommodate the bass within reason?

The point of all this is to help ease the load on volunteers, so anyone can help with band/sound regardless of their experience level, though I'm guessing the end solution will be for someone to have enough knowledge/experience to get the bass sound to a point where it's decent so that rehearsal can continue.













problem is that the bass doesn't sound the same depending on whose playing and whose the sound guy(s). This won't fully solve the problem but help it, is thereIs there something to make
Curious, I can't be the first person to have this problem

Simple effective inexpensive easy to get straight to pa, let stage amp be local monitor nearfield ?
Quilter Phantom Block

Phantom Block

Not just the ultimate gig saver: The Ultimate Tone Saver! Hey there, gigging guitarist! Ever arrived at a session only to find your amp is dead, or maybe it’s a “silent stage” with no amps allowed? Say hello to the Quilter Phantom Block, the ultimate direct interface for your electric guitar...

www.quilterlabs.com

Set the channel on the board to dead flat ,
Use the Quilter EQ /tone to get close:
Back to channel:
TAKE OUT what there is too much of.

 

[Wasnex]

IMHO.

If you are using an amp on stage, ditch the TH DI.

If you are using an onstage foldback monitor or IEMs, keep the TH DI.

I explained why in post #5.

 

[Bonecat]

I have a couple cheap Rapco passive DI boxes that work surprisingly well. No adjustments, just plug in and go.

 

[Mike Caldwell]

All told in this case simpler will be better, straight DI box to the mixer.
The weekly sound person most likely will need to adjust the input trim as well as some EQ.
Teaching someone to "run sound" can be tricky as in knowing what their hearing and what adjustments to make
to make it sound better or knowing when not to adjust something.
For someone who may only be at any sound system controls once a month or less it is even a harder thing to get the feel of....and some never can.
Teaching someone how to operate the hardware is one thing, teaching them how to hear and create a mix is tough.

Unless I missed it what is the mixer and sound system?