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Signals to the Sound Man

Gearhead17

Gearhead17

Supporting Member
May 4, 2006
5,275
3,624
Mount Prospect, IL
www.afterforeverband.com
#1
I want to send two signals to the sound man in smaller to larger bars. I thought of doing a clean DI signal and a dirty DI signal. I wanted to avoid using a microphone since 90% of the sound guys I work with WILL NOT allow me to mic my rig and prefer a direct tone. Since I will not be singing and our 4 piece Black Sabbath Tribute band will not take over a mixer too badly, I planning on doing to two direct signals. My signal chain will look very similar or exactly like this:

Line 6 G50 > Aguilar TLC > B3k or Micro Tubes > Nose effects loop pedal with Morley PBA-2 > Eden Navigator > QSC PLX 2402 > DNA 410

The distortion will be set as an always on overdrive. The tone will be edgy and fairly mean sounding. On N.I.B. for example, I will be using the wah and mostly likely will distort my signal a little heavier, but the tone will rarely change. The wah effect loop will be bypassed 98% of the time.

1. For the clean channel: should I send the signal after the compression or before it? The compression ratio would be around 5:1 (my strings will be hitting the fretboard and I will be attacking the bass similar to Geezer’s style).

2. For the distorted channel – I was thinking of sending this signal right off of my board via a DI box. How can I assure the DI does not sound really harsh? Are speaker emulated DI outputs the real deal or nothing more than an EQ scheme?

My goal is to have the Eden Navigator rig as my stage monitor. I don’t want my radical tone shaping to interfere with the sound man.

Any help is appreciated.
 
#2
I am a sound guy. I would have no problem with this. Most won't be so kind. The majority of them would use your clean signal almost exclusively. (And perhaps I would too depending on what your dirt sounds like.)

If I were you I would send post compressor. (That's the bass player in me talking... not the sound guy.)

Not trying to poo poo your idea. Just telling it like it is. Best of luck with it.
 
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#3
If it takes the sound man more than 10 seconds of thought and effort, he's not going to go for it.

A guy like Billy Sheehan can have a multi-channel crossover/distortion setup because he's in headliner acts and the contracts call for it, but I've still seen sound men complain about his rig.
 
#5
SteveC said:
Am I the only one who thought this was going to be a thread about hand signals to the sound guy for monitor mix or something?
Click to expand...
When I saw "Signals to the Sound Man" I instantly thought of the middle finger one ;) . As implied above plan on your rig having the tone you want for yourself and everyone else getting the mud-out-ur-arse version with none of your FX in it :( .
 
#6
Hand signals to the sound guy? LOL! :roflmao:

The point of my thread is to figure out if an already compressed signal is suitable and what can I do to reduce the harshness of the distortion signal while going direct?

On a side note, I had TWO shows by the SAME sound man in my 7 years of playing who actually worked with me. I gave him a 100% clean tone and setup my Audix D4 nearly dead center on a 10" cone. I was able to step out into the audience and actually hear what I sounded like through the PA. Between my clean and distorted tones, the resulting sound was FANTASTIC. It sounded like my tone on stage. The guy knew what he was doing, that's for sure. I understand I will not be working with world class sound men, but I simply want to give them good signals to help reduce the chances of sounding like crap. If they are easily adjustable signals, perhaps they are more inclined to work with me....
 
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#9
Here is an idea - I could take the final tone from my pedalboard and run it through the Empress EQ I have. On the EQ I could set the treble roll off around the 5khz area (10" speaker roll off typically) and decrease from there. I could take the sign from there and plug straight into a DI box. Clean signal, dirty signal, wah pedal, and a high end roll off combined into one. That should solve everything Thoughts?
 
#10
Doesn't the Navigator have 3 xlr outputs, 1 a DI, the other 2 are main xlr L/R DI's (assuming the main xlr L/R are the same feed as the 1/4 inch main outputs which I believe is post compressor, eq, and effects loop).

Would it be possible to send the DI XLR pre compressor and EQ (clean), and also use one or both of the main L/R xlr outputs (post compressor, eq, effects loop)?

I don't own a navigator, and this something I've been trying to figure out, not sure if it's an option, but if it is, it seems an awesome option.
 
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#11
Better to design and rehearse the tones you want to send FOH during your set, and then to deliver them to FOH via one XLR. In bars, don't expect the FOH jockey du jour to be altering the balance b/w your two bass feeds on a song-by-song basis.

Ideally, check your tone(s) during rehearsals or pre-production by sending them to a board or audio interface and recording that channel.
 
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#12
Gearhead17 said:
Here is an idea - I could take the final tone from my pedalboard and run it through the Empress EQ I have. On the EQ I could set the treble roll off around the 5khz area (10" speaker roll off typically) and decrease from there. I could take the sign from there and plug straight into a DI box. Clean signal, dirty signal, wah pedal, and a high end roll off combined into one. That should solve everything Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Yes - mix your signal yourself and send the sound guy the result.
 
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#13
Thanks for the replies. I have decided to invest in a Wounded Paw V3 for three channels of blending: distortion with original clean, compressed bass, and clean bass with a wah pedal. I will mix the distortion and clean to my liking and use one tone all night long. The Wah will be switched on only for a short time and I will make sure the volumes of Ch 1 & 2 combined and Ch 3 are about the same. The sound guy will receive the blended signals and I am not going to mess with the tones much after the first song. I am thinking this will simplify everything and give the sound man less flexibility with my tone. Of course, I am not going to give him a tone with insane amounts of any frequency, but he will definitely receive a tone I can be happy with.

I am switching to a GK 1001RB for my stage tone and ditching the Eden Navigator and power amp. I don't need more components in my rig.

As for several tones out of the Navigator head to the sound man, I suggest checking out the manual - I am pretty sure you can do that.
 
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#15
Janforth said:
Did you get rid of the Eden Navigator? Was there any problem with it?
Click to expand...

I picked it up from GC in the used section. It was nice to work with, but I was not interested in combining it with a power amp. Too much gear to carry around. It sounded good, but not quite like the Eden heads I remember hearing. Good EQ section though. Very versatile.
 
#16
Since you already have the V3 here's a way to get the biggest low under gnarl that ever was. V3 becomes a mini mixer and phase controller.

Bass ~( via at least a buffered stage, octave synth and maybe wah here ) > Rolls sx21 mini crossover
highs > fx > A
lows > B
B > C set series
C has cable in loop and set on opposed phase to the always on state.
V3 out to Amp or DI pre.

However many phase changing pedals are turned on in the high stream decides whether C is engaged to reverse lows to match. Of necessity I neglect non 180° contributions.

Once you figure out where the crossover point setting needs to be, it can be stashed under the board.
 

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