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Simandl 30 Etudes Music Minus One

Discussion in 'Double Bass Pedagogy [DB]' started by salcott, May 22, 2020 at 2:44 PM.


  1. salcott

    salcott Supporting Member

    Aug 22, 2007
    NYC, Inwood.
    Looking for stuff to work on in isolation, I found a copy of Simandl 30 Etudes with piano accompaniment. I tuned up as usual, skipping the tuning notes on the CD. I was going out of my mind trying to play in tune until (D'OH) it occurred to me to check the pitch with the strobe tuner app on my phone. To my surprise, the piano is tuned to A=437. I retuned the bass, and all is well, but I wonder why MMO did this, especially without any indication of non-440 anywhere in the book.
     
  2. Steve Freides

    Steve Freides Former Mannes College Theory Faculty Supporting Member

    Dec 11, 2007
    Ridgewood, NJ
    That’s lousy! Would have driven me crazy, too.

    -S-
     
  3. salcott

    salcott Supporting Member

    Aug 22, 2007
    NYC, Inwood.
    I wouldn't have minded if there had just been a note in the intro alerting me. It's otherwise really well done and enjoyable to work with.
     
  4. Don Kasper

    Don Kasper Supporting Member

    maybe it MMM- music minus music?
    (jk!)
    Nice.
     
  5. salcott

    salcott Supporting Member

    Aug 22, 2007
    NYC, Inwood.
    The accompaniment is actually pretty musical-not metronomically stiff at all.
     
    Don Kasper likes this.
  6. Don Kasper

    Don Kasper Supporting Member

    I wish this had been available when I was a punk...All I had was my teacher yelling at me.
    Thanks.
     
  7. shwashwa

    shwashwa

    Aug 30, 2003
    NJ
    Maybe it was recorded in the analog age with tape that play back at varying speeds depending on the player. If you have editing software you can load it into it and put it into concert pitch A 440
     
    Chris Fitzgerald likes this.
  8. salcott

    salcott Supporting Member

    Aug 22, 2007
    NYC, Inwood.
    The copyright is 2005.
    It's not a big deal to tune down a bit, just baffling. I have tinnitus in my right ear, and was worried that the problem playing in tune was related to that.
     
  9. Steve Freides

    Steve Freides Former Mannes College Theory Faculty Supporting Member

    Dec 11, 2007
    Ridgewood, NJ
    Pianos can go out of tune by that much with changes in the weather. How much varies by the piano and, of course, by the weather. My tuner recommends a winter and a summer tuning because no matter what you do, it won't stay true long in Spring or Fall. I often find my piano 5 cents sharp in July if I had it tuned in March. At A=440, each Hz is 4 cents, so your 437 equates to 12 cents out of tune.

    (The math is easy here because Ab is 415 at A=440, so it's 25 Hz (440-415) for 100 cents. Each 1 Hz is 4 cents.)

    It doesn't Hz.

    Dollars and ...

    -S-
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020 at 6:09 PM
  10. salcott

    salcott Supporting Member

    Aug 22, 2007
    NYC, Inwood.
    I've never been in a professional recording situation where the piano was not at 440, no matter the season. This isn't someone doing a YouTube video in their spare room, it's Music Minus One. That's what makes it so strange.
     
    lurk and Don Kasper like this.
  11. We all assume that CD players play it back perfectly, unlike tape or vinyl, but is it possible your CD player is playing it back slow? Do other CD players you have, play this at the same pitch? What about your computer? What about importing it into your computer and playing back the file?

    I also notice that digital tuners are not all exactly the same. My old Seiko was slightly different than the Boss tuners. And perhaps the pitch reading dropped when the battery was weak. Phone apps could need calibrating as well.

    Have you tested your phone app tuner with other dedicated hardware tuners? With other apps tuners? With a real metal tuning fork? Or a digital tuning fork? Could your current tuner be reading flat?

    Also wondering, how does what you have compare to this (and the corresponding playlist)?
     
    Carl Hillman likes this.
  12. Carl Hillman

    Carl Hillman

    Jan 1, 2010
    I've got that edition as well. The tuning issue is annoying as heck.

    And, as long as I'm critiquing it, I would actually prefer the accompaniment be metronomic over the way they recorded it. At least you would know what to expect. As it is, you have to learn exactly where, and how much, the pianist slows down/speeds up and try to match that. ...totally backward to the way it's supposed to work in the real world, with the accompanist following the soloist.

    Also, the count offs are too short. (one bar) Give me enough time to get the bow in my hand and get set, please.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020 at 11:10 PM
    longfinger likes this.
  13. Ah ok, so the issue duplicated ..
    Seems like the session was recorded flat...
     
    salcott likes this.
  14. salcott

    salcott Supporting Member

    Aug 22, 2007
    NYC, Inwood.
    I've checked on two different tuners and am confident about the results and my original post. Regarding the recording in the YouTube video, the CD accompaniment that came with the music is a real piano,, played by a real person; the video sounds like a midi realization complete with a wrong note in bar 15, 4th beat, which is when I stopped listening.
     
    longfinger likes this.
  15. Steve Freides

    Steve Freides Former Mannes College Theory Faculty Supporting Member

    Dec 11, 2007
    Ridgewood, NJ
    Stuff in the digital domain is usually pretty accurate. That said, the algorithm for a tuner can be quite complex - there's all sorts of averaging going on, so the fact that different tuners show different results is more likely to be a result of the different way each has decided to turn their measurements into feedback they show you, rather than inaccuracies of their measurements, IMO.

    The Peterson strobe tuners, which you can now get in clip-on versions, are the gold standard as far as I'm concerned - after I tried them, I couldn't make myself use anything else. Expensive, $50 apiece or so for something you can buy for much less, but they're great and worth the $$ to me.

    If you want to try something cool with metronomes, not tuners, take a couple of smart phones running a metronome app and put one at quarters and the other as eighths, e.g., set one to 72 and the other to 144. If you start the second metronome app exactly in sync with the first - it might take a few tries but it's perfectly doable - you'll find they stay exactly in sync with each other for at least as long as I've ever tried it, maybe 10 minutes, and I suspect they'd go on this way forever. It's way cool, IMO, and certainly not something you could ever do with the windup kind of metronome. (I use this with students all the time because I can adjust the volume of each metronome, sometimes by just moving it closer or further away - great for someone who can't, e.g., get 8ths in tempo at 72 to hear where the 8th are, then gradually reduce the volume of the 8th.)

    -S-
     
    longfinger likes this.
  16. salcott

    salcott Supporting Member

    Aug 22, 2007
    NYC, Inwood.
    I used the Peterson app and an old Korg tuner that is dead accurate.
     
  17. Steve Freides

    Steve Freides Former Mannes College Theory Faculty Supporting Member

    Dec 11, 2007
    Ridgewood, NJ
    Do we have a date for this? Release date, recording date?

    -S-
     
  18. salcott

    salcott Supporting Member

    Aug 22, 2007
    NYC, Inwood.
  19. Steve Freides

    Steve Freides Former Mannes College Theory Faculty Supporting Member

    Dec 11, 2007
    Ridgewood, NJ
  20. salcott

    salcott Supporting Member

    Aug 22, 2007
    NYC, Inwood.
    The one with CDs is 5/25/05.
     

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