Simandl on bass guitar

[ErikP.Bass]

Worthwhile blog/video on this topic:

Upright Approaches for the Electric Bass

I struggle with this topic and tend to lean towards what JimmyM and others have stated about value in both approaches. Tom makes a lot of great points in his video about often overlooked subtleties of music.

 

[elgranluis]

I think at one point in time Simandl meant 1-2-34 fingering, but nowadays it´s simply "how to read sheet music."

For me , the difference in scale means that 4 fingers on the upright equal 3 notes vs four frets on the electric. If I had a 34" scale upright, i´d probably be able to play it like an electric LOL

Check out Gary Karr (fast forward 100 years) for a different approach to fingering.

 

[IamGroot]

I started 1fpf at the age of 5 on classical guitar which worked great as a lead guitarist. When i took up electric bass, i used the jaco method book which is 1fpf. Learned Simandl when i played upright. I played a lot of jazz on electric using 1fpf. I went thru all of Mike Richmonds walking bass book as 1fpf.
I play Bach violin pieces and Charlie Parker bebop on electric bass using 1fpf. Learning fingering to do this has been a fascinating journey. Maybe someone does this using Simandl but not me.

 

[logdrum]

How about Rabbath on a bass tuned in 5ths

Not big hands here but I may do one finger per fret after 6 fret. I am also an upright player who learned Simandl. But this Rabbath seems really natural for me. But I also do the Mitt or bear paw specially if I am doing pedal point or a very long drone. Sometimes you have to just rest.

 

[IamGroot]

One of the benefits of studying Simandl is the insight into how db players constructed their bass lines.

 

[IamGroot]

If you pass through GC, check out Patituci's etude book. The back of the book is devoted to scale modes using both acoustic bass and bg fingering.

 

[Stranger Danger]

Lots of folks around here prefer the Simandl technique (whether they call it that or not) on electric bass. There are also lots of folks who use it when playing below the 5th fret or so, but switch to OFPF above that. I've always liked Scott Devine's take on OFPF: Use it when you need it, but not when you don't.

I don't always agree with Scott but on this he is absolutely spot on.

 

[BurtMacklinFBI]

Personally I use OFPF all the time; it’s how I was taught to play and it never occurred to me that it could be a problem for some players until I read posts about it here. I get the impression, though, that a lot of other players’ experience with learning OFPF was not as positive as mine was, and that a fair number feel like it’s been pushed on them as some sort of One True Bass Fretting Technique. So I can see why it gets the reactions it does here.

I think that Scott Devine did a pretty poor job of explaining why one might not want to use OFPF, but his basic point still holds up I think. Just understand that using or not using it is a personal decision by every player, and that if OFPF doesn’t cause you discomfort then there’s no good reason not to use it as much as you feel comfortable with.

 

[Wasnex]

I don't always agree with Scott but on this he is absolutely spot on.

I guess I reverse Scott's recommendation. I.E. Use Simandl fingering when you need it, but not when you don't. But, I almost never need Simandl fingering on electric bass.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Lots of folks around here prefer the Simandl technique (whether they call it that or not) on electric bass. There are also lots of folks who use it when playing below the 5th fret or so, but switch to OFPF above that. I've always liked Scott Devine's take on OFPF: Use it when you need it, but not when you don't.

I started with OFPF as per Chuck Rainey's book, but I use Simandl below 5th fret, OFPF above now. It's more comfortable.

 

[Wasnex]

Personally I use OFPF all the time; it’s how I was taught to play and it never occurred to me that it could be a problem for some players until I read posts about it here. I get the impression, though, that a lot of other players’ experience with learning OFPF was not as positive as mine was, and that a fair number feel like it’s been pushed on them as some sort of One True Bass Fretting Technique. So I can see why it gets the reactions it does here.

I think that Scott Devine did a pretty poor job of explaining why one might not want to use OFPF, but his basic point still holds up I think. Just understand that using or not using it is a personal decision by every player, and that if OFPF doesn’t cause you discomfort then there’s no good reason not to use it as much as you feel comfortable with.

I agree that forcing OFPF on every player without considering their physiology is irresponsible. On a related note, Some TB members have described what I would call a hybrid fingering system. All four fingers are used, but not as OFPF. Instead microshifts are used to avoid hyprextending the hand...this generates unusual, but potentially useful fingering patterns and shifts that I would never have considered since I tend to alternate between Simandl or OFPF.

Another angle to consider is some players will not really benefit from OFPF. I started transitioning to OFPF because I was performing technical soli lines that were virtually impossible with Simandl fingering. If I played only commercial music, I may have never felt the need to learn OFPF.

 

[StatesideRambler]

Can anyone explain it to me, or explain why people seem to be disapproving of not using Simandl on bass guitar?

I believe it’s because they believe that the system they prefer is the superior system, an idea that’s often promoted to “the right way to play.” If you don’t play “the right way” you are deemed an inferior musician, regardless of your skills. When I’m asked about it I usually respond, play the way that sounds the best, the way that’s easier for you. Give each system a trial period that’s long enough to get reasonably proficient then go your own way.

 

[JimmyM]

I agree that forcing OFPF on every player without considering their physiology is irresponsible. On a related note, Some TB members have described what I would call a hybrid fingering system. All four fingers are used, but not as OFPF. Instead microshifts are used to avoid hyprextending the hand...this generates unusual, but potentially useful fingering patterns and shifts that I would never have considered since I tend to alternate between Simandl or OFPF.

You should try it...it's how I can do a 5 fret reach when needed. Just a very slight and almost unnoticeable pivot to make it happen.

 

[Bill Whitehurst]

I use the 1FPF method.
However, I don't play URB, so I never had to reach as far.
I am an average size guy, with average size fingers,
but
I have a lot of stretch.
I piss of my keyboard friends by playing block chords where I stretch out over 14 keys to do a ninth on top with my pinky.

Use what works best for you.
Above all else, do not be worrying about fingering while you play.
With enough playing, your fingers will know the way before you have time to think.

One thing I do use is keeping my thumb in the center of the back of the neck.
Yes, that is related to fingering.
It lets you pivot, stretch and not move your thumb.

In case you were wondering how that happened when I don't play URB, I started on violin 60 years ago.

 

[Wasnex]

You should try it...it's how I can do a 5 fret reach when needed. Just a very slight and almost unnoticeable pivot to make it happen.

I was actually practicing a 5 fret pattern earlier today .

 

[Pedullist]

I started out on an early age on double bass, with the Simandl book, so 1-2-4 fingering is in my system. On bass guitar I tend to use it up until the 12th fret (unless I need to do fast stuff, I can switch easily on the spot). Why? It helps you to mute strings in the easiest way, and prevents strain on your fingers. Sometimes I see these kids on YouTube doing the OFPF thing, I can't help but think that 1-2-4 fingering would've been better. It looks more relaxed (despite the fact that you need to move your hand a bit more) and: no unnecessary ringing strings. If you do OFPF, you tend to stay on the same string with that hand. Let's say I need to play a B on my A string. With 1-2-4, my pinky will be on the D-G strings to mute them. That's not how my double bass teacher taught me, mind you, but it makes more sense on a bass guitar. With OPFP I'd try to keep ring and pinky floating above C and C#.

I mean, this girl is doing a fine job playing this Vulfpeck song (I did it too myself), but her choice to use her ring finger on many spots, wouldn't be mine, it doesn't look too relaxed...

 

[IamGroot]

I use the 1FPF method.
However, I don't play URB, so I never had to reach as far.
I am an average size guy, with average size fingers,
but
I have a lot of stretch.
I piss of my keyboard friends by playing block chords where I stretch out over 14 keys to do a ninth on top with my pinky.

Use what works best for you.
Above all else, do not be worrying about fingering while you play.
With enough playing, your fingers will know the way before you have time to think.

One thing I do use is keeping my thumb in the center of the back of the neck.
Yes, that is related to fingering.
It lets you pivot, stretch and not move your thumb.

In case you were wondering how that happened when I don't play URB, I started on violin 60 years ago.

Yep, finger behind the neck and the pivot. Also micoshift. I was taught this in upright by an instructor who went beyond simandl. He played in both 4ths and 5ths tuning.

 

[IamGroot]

I was actually practicing a 5 fret pattern earlier today .

Jaco was a proponent of 5 fret. I learned it, but some 5 fret can be as quickly played in 1fpf using alternate fingering.

 

[delta7fred]

When I started playing bass (1966) my pinkie was very weak so I was using 1 2 4 but was told (by a guitar teacher) that I should be using OFPF. I spent a lot of time building up strength in my pinkie and eventually mastered OFPF.

Fast forward to about 2013 and I bought an EUB and immediately dropped back into 1 2 4.

I'm now a big believer in playing however it is most comfortable and let my fingers get on with it, I don't get concerned about which finger is doing what.

 

[swink]

-I've been playing for 25y EBG => thinking in fretpositions for every note, and put a finger where needed.( the one near the fret and make shure I don't need to cross my fingers for the next note.

-2 years ago I started upright in the academy => Simandel ... It's a hell to addapt ... thinking in hand positions and fingers ... (ex. 1st position second finger E-string = 3th fret E-string = G )

Do I use Simandel on EBG => NO
Do I use a mixed fingering technique on EBG => Yes ... 1-2-3-4, 1-2-4, 1-3-4, 2-3-4, 1-2-3,..., 1-1-1,2-2-2

The best way to exercice 4-fingertechnique is the 'SPIDER' from John Patitucci