Simple + Great Sound Live: Handheld Recorder? Which One?

[deathness]

I've owned a Yamaha that's no longer made that I liked cuz it was the size of a cigarette lighter, and got the job done - and a ZOOM that I hated, but to be honest I don't remember why . I also had the ZOOM video piece of sheit that busted, cost me $150 to have fixed, and then busted again the next time I used it. I'm a fan of ZOOM's effects, but their audio/visual stuff to me seems like they're held together with spit.

A few years back I wanted to do some multi-track recording while on vacation, and I picked myself up a BOSS micro BR. I recorded one song with it on vacation, this (using a ubass, also) :



And I have since been using it for all my live rehearsal recordings. I love it, and comes with lots more bells, whistles and capabilities than than the ZOOMs. Has taken a beating too, and keeps on ticking.

Based on my stated goals, I don't think the Boss is the kinda unit I'm looking for. Glad it works for you though!

 

[deathness]

One big consideration is mic placement. Your handheld really needs a standard mic jack and a mic stand for the "best" sound. An x/y stereo mic is not "surround sound" as you mentioned; it's pretty much what is projected in front of the mic. Setting the handheld recorder on the floor is not likely to pick up note bloom and room noise. Either the recorder or a separate stereo mic should be placed exactly where the best sound occurs.

For example, in the video below I used a stereo mic in front of the electric duo and about 3 feet off the floor. Picked up plenty of nuance! If you're recording a bigger band, you will need to move the mic further away from the band in order to capture the wider field of sound. Sometimes this will capture too much room noise, such as audience chatter, glasses clinking, etc. during quieter parts of a song. There are many many tradeoffs/considerations for recording, but mic placement is just as important (if not more important!) than the quality of your gear.

Yeah, mic placement is key. When I record now, I spend most of my set-up time on mic placement. I have a coupla mic stands and will probably shake out for a more portable/collapsible one if I can get this set-up together.

Good to know about the limits of x/y mics. I kinda figured the marketing jargon was probably making claims too great.

My music is only me, no loops or overdubs. Perhaps, I'll do collabs with another musician on a song by song basis in the future, but I compose my music for just solo performance. As mentioned above, ambient noise is just fine by me. That said, my intent is to record this material without an intended audience. If someone walking by just happens to make noise, that's fine though and I don't care if it gets picked up by the recorder.

 

[deathness]

I love my Zoom H2.

Cool. What do you use it for? What do you love about it?

 

[DWBass]

Cool. What do you use it for? What do you love about it?

I have used it for rehearsals and gigs. Placement is key though to get a nice balanced recording. Ease of use. Compact size. Selectable WAV or MP3 recording (I use WAV). Accessories. Came with a table stand, mic stand adapter and a mic screen protector. The newer H2n comes with a different accessories pack. I think I have owned mine almost 10 years now and I've had zero issues with it.

Link to H2 recording from a live gig I played. Invalid Link Removed [I've not been in this band since 2011]

 

[rudy4444]

For what you're trying to accomplish do yourself a favor and get a Tascam DR-05. You don't need anything with more bells and whistles than that, and you don't want X/Y capsules if you're looking to capture room.

Mounts on a stand, omni mics, 96khz 24 bit wav, dead easy to operate. Less fiddling and more time in the trenches. ...and it's cheap.

I do portable recording with a Zoom R24 and a bunch of condenser mics but I have this handheld and I love it. You can even do multiple layer overdubs if you want, but you're probably looking for something to use with a DAW. The DR-05 is simple to mount to your pc with a usb plug and you got it all.

 

[DirkP]

If you have an iPhone I would try a mic like the Shure MV88 or - if you have more money and are willing to carry a bit more stuff and set it up - a Lewitt DGT650. The Lewitt is very very good - I own it. And the Shure from the reviews I've read a bit better than the Zoom recorders and cheaper and you carry your mobile phone with you anyway.
I wanted to buy the Shure but couldn't resist the Lewitt...

 

[ofajen]

For what you're trying to accomplish do yourself a favor and get a Tascam DR-05. You don't need anything with more bells and whistles than that, and you don't want X/Y capsules if you're looking to capture room.

Mounts on a stand, omni mics, 96khz 24 bit wav, dead easy to operate. Less fiddling and more time in the trenches. ...and it's cheap.

I do portable recording with a Zoom R24 and a bunch of condenser mics but I have this handheld and I love it. You can even do multiple layer overdubs if you want, but you're probably looking for something to use with a DAW. The DR-05 is simple to mount to your pc with a usb plug and you got it all.

Yes. All of this (and what Ukiah Bass said.). The DR-05 is cheap and gives you just what you want. Just bring a mike stand along and maybe some headphones.

BTW, the Shure MV88 and the Lewitt are both directional, not omni. The Shure is mid-side and the Lewitt is X-Y. No doubt very good for some things, but they aren't optimal for what you say you are after.

Otto

 

[DirkP]

Yes. All of this (and what Ukiah Bass said.). The DR-05 is cheap and gives you just what you want. Just bring a mike stand along and maybe some headphones.

BTW, the Shure MV88 and the Lewitt are both directional, not omni. The Shure is mid-side and the Lewitt is X-Y. No doubt very good for some things, but they aren't optimal for what you say you are after.

Otto

Don't disagree

Here is an interesting and fair comparison between the DGT650, the internal mic of an iPhone5 and 2 LCT 550 in XY-configuration recording a Schubert Quartett. I was impressed by the iPhone mic (if only one could get rid of the highpass filter) and even more so by the 2 LCT 550 (but these are 700,- a piece). The config of the DGT650 is very good for recordings of rehearsals or live concerts, but the stereo of the 2 550s recording this Streichquartett is much more impressive, I have to admit. What kind of puzzles me is that the 650 is XY too, but the stereo image of the 2 550s is very different (listening on two nearfield Focals).

 

[ofajen]

Different mikes. The iPhone is mono. Seemed like a level difference with the separate mikes being louder than the stereo mike. Also, both on-axis and off-axis response will matter here and will vary some. Also rather different electronics downstream. It adds up (actually convolves, I guess).

Otto

 

[DWBass]

Different mikes. The iPhone is mono.

Connected to an external mic it can become stereo. I bought a Tascam iM2 for my iPod Touch.

I downloaded the Tascam recording app. Works great. Only works with the older iPods/iPhones with the wider connector. I'm sure there's something available for the newer models.

Edit: Here you go. For the newer models.

 

[jasmangan]

I use the h4n and get good recordings. I play a lot of loud, aggressive space jam stuff. I set the h4n on a mic stand about 3' high and 2' in front of the drums with the XY pointed slightly towards the kick and use the mic inputs for bass and guitar.
While not a pro quality recording it is clear as a bell, and I can hear everything. The wifi of the Tascam is really cool, zoom should get on that as well.
I've not seen those Tascam iPhone mics, those look cool but I think I still would need the extra mic inputs.

 

[ofajen]

Connected to an external mic it can become stereo.

Of course. But the internal mike used in the example is mono.

Otto

 

[deathness]

For what you're trying to accomplish do yourself a favor and get a Tascam DR-05. You don't need anything with more bells and whistles than that, and you don't want X/Y capsules if you're looking to capture room...

Yes. All of this (and what Ukiah Bass said.). The DR-05 is cheap and gives you just what you want. Just bring a mike stand along and maybe some headphones...

Yeah, the price point on the DR-05 versus some of the other handheld units I'm considering is def a huge plus. So far the upcoming mkIII version Tascam DR-100 has been the one I've had my eye on, but I wonder if the DR-05, as you both mention, might be all I need.

I also wonder about the mic construction. The DR-05's mic are just omni. On the DR-100, the omni's just have this tiny opening. The DR-100 seems to be more configured for the unidirectional mics. Honestly, I know very little about any of this stuff. If I'm going for omni mics, would the DR-05 be better? Or is what I just pointed not really of consequence?

 

[ofajen]

Probably both Tascams will do well. You may be right that the DR-100 is more set up for the uni mikes. I might prefer what appears to be the slightly greater separation between capsules on the DR-05. But the DR-100 does allow you to record at WAY too high of a data rate, so you can really eat up the disc space.

Otto

 

[ZenG]

I have a Zoom H2N. It's pretty good once you get the sound "balanced" in the room you're recording in. It is important to get the sounds dialed in before you start.

The H2N, you can get the remote start accessory pack. It is however a corded remote.

But it's way better than "auto start" or having to touch the unit to turn it on.

Every time you manually touch the main unit to turn it on, you will hear finger noise.

 

[ofajen]

I still use one of the original M-Audio MicroTracks that I got at least a dozen years ago. Mostly because it still works.

Matter of fact I recorded all the tracks of my kid's band concert this week with it. Great recording of the sound where I was in the front row.

I did have to tear it apart a few years ago and replace the battery, but now we have handy USB battery units to help it run longer.

Anyway, I'm using a custom stereo omni unit made specifically for the MicroTrack by SoundProfessionals. It uses plug in power, but the signal goes to the TRS mike inputs so the sound quality is quite good. The omni capsules capture the entire spectrum, so even the tubas and bass drum sound just as huge as they did in the auditorium.

They don't make that mike unit as the portable market has moved on a bit, but they are still a useful resource for small mike capsules for various portable recorders.

Otto

 

[rudy4444]

I have a Zoom H2N. It's pretty good once you get the sound "balanced" in the room you're recording in. It is important to get the sounds dialed in before you start.

The H2N, you can get the remote start accessory pack. It is however a corded remote.

But it's way better than "auto start" or having to touch the unit to turn it on.

Every time you manually touch the main unit to turn it on, you will hear finger noise.

The Tascam DR-05 has a selectable short length delay to start recording a bit after the button is pushed. It's mentioned in the manual that it's to eliminate handling noise and "button click" when the recording is started.