Singers changing key: how much is too much?

[ToneMonkey]

The only time I personally have a problem with rekeying is when it's done last minute. Mega-church singers, often being total divas, would show up on Sunday morning and announce to the band, "My voice won't hit those high notes this morning, so I need to drop down a half step at least for the first service." Sorry, but that is just so damned disrespectful to everyone else. At that point, I've likely played the song 30 times in a certain key, and the music on my stand is in that key. That's the damned key were doing it in. If your voice is so close to its limit, make that change during personal practice time and let the band know then so that we can print music in the proper key. I just have zero tolerance for that shizzle. Crash and burn with your voice for all I care.

Other times, rekeying can be a positive catalyst for rethinking the song.

 

[frankie5string]

Sometimes I hear resistance from horn players because "the instrument is in Bb." Because I don't know how to play a horn, I don't really understand the entirety of the complication there, but it does seem to me that an instrument that can play twelve tones could probably be played in any western key, since you have all the required notes. I'm sure it's a more complicated issue with fingering or something. But I'm pretty certain that not all music with horns was written in Bb.

That makes no sense though. Yes, they are a Bb transposing instrument, but transposing to concert pitch/key is a fact of life for them - there's no reason for them to insist songs be played in Bb.

That aside, if I ever balked at a key change request, I'd first be asked why, followed by fingers pointing to the nearest exit. lol!

 

[LBS-bass]

That makes no sense though. Yes, they are a Bb transposing instrument, but transposing to concert pitch/key is a fact of life for them - there's no reason for them to insist songs be played in Bb.

That aside, if I ever balked at a key change request, I'd first be asked why, followed by fingers pointing to the nearest exit. lol!

It doesn't make any sense to me either, but I've heard it numerous times. Perhaps someone who does play horn can shed some light on this mystery.

 

[Geddaric]

Sounds like a good reason to buy more basses!

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Hey Tea Bee,

So I'm in a band that been on a sorta kinda hiatus for covid reasons and in that time we have come up with a list of 20 new covers.

In our WhatsApp group, the singer announced today he wants to change the key of 19 of those songs to accommodate his range. In some cases it's no stress, a string up a fret down etc, but in others it involves jumping octaves and rearranging whole passages.

I'm just wondering what your thoughts were and if this is normal singer behaviour.

Cast your votes now!

Well, technically you are the singer’s back up band. I’ve worked primarily with vocal bands for the last 50 years. What I’ve found is in time vocalists lose their vocal range and changing key is easier than replacing singers when they lose their fastball.

To your point, changing 19 of 20 songs seems a lot of work, especially if you haven’t been gigging much, but what you don’t want to do is is ruin his/her voice. If they sing 20 songs in a row on a gig out of a their range it could take days to recoup. They do that often enough and there could be permanent damage.

 

[ToneMonkey]

It doesn't make any sense to me either, but I've heard it numerous times. Perhaps someone who does play horn can shed some light on this mystery.

It may be that horns (like piano) have to keep track of sharps and flats. Whereas guitar and bass are more positional and shape driven. Rekey a half step or full step on guitar and bass, and I'm likely playing the same shapes and parts but at a different location on the neck. I can see how rekeying from Bb to B (going from two flats to five sharps) might be a real mofo, even if it is only a semitone up. Especially on the fly at the last minute.

 

[LBS-bass]

It may be that horns (like piano) have to keep track of sharps and flats. Whereas guitar and bass are more positional and shape driven. Rekey a half step or full step on guitar and bass, and I'm likely playing the same shapes and parts but at a different location on the neck. I can see how rekeying from Bb to B (going from two flats to five sharps) might be a real mofo, even if it is only a semitone up. Especially on the fly at the last minute.

So the real issue then is not the key, but the transposition. When they say "it's a Bb instrument" what they're really trying to say is that this makes it harder to transpose from the learned key to a different one. That makes sense to this crappy piano player.

 

[JimmyM]

Hey Tea Bee,

So I'm in a band that been on a sorta kinda hiatus for covid reasons and in that time we have come up with a list of 20 new covers.

In our WhatsApp group, the singer announced today he wants to change the key of 19 of those songs to accommodate his range. In some cases it's no stress, a string up a fret down etc, but in others it involves jumping octaves and rearranging whole passages.

I'm just wondering what your thoughts were and if this is normal singer behaviour.

Cast your votes now!

It's normal singer behavior, and unless you're looking to trash his voice and have him sound bad on those songs, then I would suggest working it out. I've played in a whole lot of bands and with a whole lot of singers who were the original artists, and many of them have had to change the keys along the way because they couldn't hit certain notes anymore and didn't want to sound bad.

 

[JimmyM]

So the real issue then is not the key, but the transposition. When they say "it's a Bb instrument" what they're really trying to say is that this makes it harder to transpose from the learned key to a different one. That makes sense to this crappy piano player.

Most good horn players have worked out transposing on the fly because they've had to in order to keep a career. I've had to do it my own self many times.

 

[two fingers]

The appeal is not the absolute note being hit but the sound of the human voice at the top of it's register. It conveys emotion and power. You get that same feeling from a lower voice in a lower key provided the voice is still hitting it's upper range.

Unless the goal is to photo-copy the original song rather than have your version of it.

So you can drop a Journey song three whole steps and blast it out at the top of your range and it will sound great? I don't buy it.

I sing this song in my band. There's no way even the beginning of it would have the same impact in a lower key. The super thin high vocals are a huge part of the "hook".

 

[wheelsup247]

I just roll with it, at the same time when a key change takes away the open E note (I play 4 string), then that does the mood/fullness of the song significantly.

 

[frankie5string]

So the real issue then is not the key, but the transposition. When they say "it's a Bb instrument" what they're really trying to say is that this makes it harder to transpose from the learned key to a different one. That makes sense to this crappy piano player.

No way... Horn players aren't like rock and roll guitar players. Part of the basic education of learning to play a transposing instrument is transposing. I suspect, if they're actually asking for songs to be in Bb, they're doing it to be smartasses (more likely) than anything else because a Bb on a trumpet is actually not actually Bb on a piano.

 

[LBS-bass]

No way... Horn players aren't like rock and roll guitar players. Part of the basic education of learning to play a transposing instrument is transposing. I suspect, if they're actually asking for songs to be in Bb, they're doing it to be smartasses (more likely) than anything else because a Bb on a trumpet is actually not actually Bb on a piano.

I understand it’s supposed to be in their repertoire but I’m telling you it’s been said to me more than once

 

[frankie5string]

I understand it’s supposed to be in their repertoire but I’m telling you it’s been said to me more than once

From experience, I've found horn players like to play around with the rhythm section. They're a saucy bunch. I blame it on the amount of blood that rushes to their lips after they play a long line... hehehe.

 

[LBS-bass]

Most good horn players have worked out transposing on the fly because they've had to in order to keep a career. I've had to do it my own self many times.

This is good to know and yet another way to separate the wheat from the chaff, I reckon.

 

[bearhart74]

As long as it's not unplanned right in the middle of a song on a gig.

 

[LBS-bass]

From experience, I've found horn players like to play around with the rhythm section. They're a saucy bunch. I blame it on the amount of blood that rushes to their lips after they play a long line... hehehe.

Well I guess if they don’t mind looking uneducated and losing potential future work.

 

[Yellow Bang66]

i voted "pretty much always" even though that might be a stretch. but: females singing "boy tunes" and males singing "girl tunes" and finding keys common to both for duets, etc. = a lot of key changes!

it's just a part of dealing with singers. if we depend on them to 'sell' the act: we'd better accommodate the easy stuff!

Sometimes, depends onthe setlist& song genre.almost always to accomodate them so they dont blow out their throats, also tuning down a whole to half step. usually never anything more, or crazy. problem was dingus drummer kept slowing down because he preceived us playing "Lower" as him playing slower! yeah had to Quit because of him & his stupid antics!!

 

[Seano76]

For me, it depends on the song and how big of a change it is.
When I was just a kid, I was asked to learn Crossfire by SRV. Easy song. I went home and learned it, got familiar with the main riff, etc. Then when I showed up for rehearsal, the singer says, "Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you I wanted to try this in D flat."The song sounded weird to me in that key and was uncomfortable to play. I hated it.

 

[TinIndian]

We tune down a half step as a band so that automatically drops every song. That is a pretty typical thing for most bands even big touring acts. Beyond that we have one song that we changed the key 1/2 step down to help the singer a little.