Singing and playing...HELP!

[Swampish]

It's definitely not easy for most people, myself included.

I've found that 1st off, I have to have the bass line and vocal parts down 100% separately. Once I have them down, I try to combine the two and find where I stumble. Then, as someone else said break down those sections where you have issues into smaller parts and try and find a way to get them nailed down through repetition.

It's another one of those "there's no shortcut around practice" things.

Agreed, it's something I need to integrate more into my regular practicing, even when not called for so that at least it becomes more natural and less forced.

Gotta admit, I've cheated sometimes and modified my bass line so that it corresponds more to the vocals. Not proud of it and only did it when it wasn't super obvious, still, not optimal.

 

[Lava]

Playing bass and singing lead is hard! I recently read a Geddy Lee article where he talks about still finding it hard to do. I find that much practice helps and altering the bass lines just a bit to what feels more comfortable for you to sing and play at the same time.

 

[armyadarkness]

I think the key is what you and a few others have pointed to and, of course, that's practice and repetition. The big mistake on my part is that I work on my bass parts, but if I'm not required to sing, I only use the vocals for cues and such. The idea of practicing them even when I'm not doing them in a song is not a bad idea.

For a long time, I played hard rock and heavy metal that didn't require backing vocals, but we're doing a lot of heavier classic rock that requires it now.

Misfits...nice!

Go watch some Iron Maiden videos. Steve Harris does no vocals at all, yet he clearly sings EVERY lyric in his head while he plays.

Of course, it goes without saying that if you do anything long enough you get good... but there are ways to expedite.

Key...

• You'll never be good doing two things at once if you're not first good doing them both by themselves. So if you suck as a singer when you're in the shower, then don't expect to sound good when you're playing the bass... Likewise, if you can't play the bass to a tune without intensely focusing on the fret board... then don't expect the addition of singing to improve your skilz.

Like I said... pick a tune where you CAN do both... Doesn't matter whether or not its well. Nail the vocals while not playing the bass... then nail the bass while not singing... Then do both and you've just made the jump to hyper space.

 

[pcake]

i've been singing and playing for years. i practice the bass and vocal parts separately till i have them both down cold. then it's easy to combine them.

 

[Swampish]

i've been singing and playing for years. i practice the bass and vocal parts separately till i have them both down cold. then it's easy to combine them.

That's something else I don't do and probably should, that you and others have mentioned. I work the bass part, then go right to doing bass and vocals simultaneously as opposed to working the vocals on their own THEN bass and vocals.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

OK, for years, I have sporadically been in positions where I've had to do backup vocals while playing. My voice is OK for backing, but unless the vocal lines match the structure of what I'm playing, I have a massive amount of trouble making it happen.

Don't know what you are playing, but, the lyrics normally follow the structure, aka beat of the song. For example Happy is a two syllable word, it normally gets two beats. So does birthday, however the to and you get one beat per word.

I have for years sung (recited) the lyrics under my breath to 1) know where the song is going and 2) know when to change chords. Might try that for starters. As that is comfortable then increase the volume.

Now to harmonizing as a backup vocalists. That is another story and most of us guys sing lead, we do not do a good job of harmonizing, i.e. we do a bad job of accompanying the lead vocalists. That is something you have to be taught. Get with a backup vocalists and take notes on how they harmonize.

Good luck.

 

[StatesideRambler]

The more embeded in your hands your playing is the easier the vocals will be. Check out video of Jack Bruce, Geddy Lee, Chris Squire, Timothy B. Schmit and Tiran Porter. They cover a wide range of styles and one thing they have in common is that they are playing their parts without any sign that they're consciously thinking about what they're playing. Having the playing side of your performance nailed frees your brain to deal with the syncopation and timing differences between the instrument and the vocal.

 

[Swampish]

Don't know what you are playing, but, the lyrics normally follow the structure, aka beat of the song. For example Happy is a two syllable word, it normally gets two beats. So does birthday, however the to and you get one beat per word.

I have for years sung (recited) the lyrics under my breath to 1) know where the song is going and 2) know when to change chords. Might try that for starters. As that is comfortable then increase the volume.

Now to harmonizing as a backup vocalists. That is another story and most of us guys sing lead, we do not do a good job of harmonizing, i.e. we do a bad job of accompanying the lead vocalists. That is something you have to be taught. Get with a backup vocalists and take notes on how they harmonize.

Good luck.

A lot of what we play has some pretty busy bass. So the bass may be generally following the song's vocals, but often it's hopping around, which is why I would sometimes cheat and modify the line so that it follows the vocal structure more closely.

Another example, in Sweet Emotion, simply holding Sweet and E-mo-tion while playing the intro riff, is exceedingly difficult for me.

 

[Crazy_Jake]

My approach when it comes to singing and playing bass is to first know the bass part inside and out so you can play it without thinking about it - learn the vocal part jsut by itself - sing along with the song until you can do that without thinking - then just put the two pieces together. Not rocket science but I dont believe there are any shortcuts either - just rinse and repeat.

 

[DirtDog]

OK, for years, I have sporadically been in positions where I've had to do backup vocals while playing. My voice is OK for backing, but unless the vocal lines match the structure of what I'm playing, I have a massive amount of trouble making it happen.

It would really help our sound to have the additional backing vocals and we're not super-keen on bringing in a dedicated backing vocalist.

Anyone have any tips, tricks or techniques to help with singing and playing at the same time? Is it just a case of practice, practice, practice or is it something you have or you don't have? Damn you, Sting, Paul and Geddy (amongst others)!

I can only very rarely manage fingerstyle when singing lead, so I play with a pick when I'm lead. I can manage a bit better with fingerstyle when I'm singing backup...I just simplify the line accordingly until I'm comfortable executing both, then work on integrating a more difficult line, if required.

I should note, this is more of a right hand issue than left hand. I always seem to know where I need to go on the neck.

 

[EarnestTBass]

Here are my notes/chicken scratch for Sweet Emotion. Please ignore this if it doesn't make sense.

I find helpful to visualize everything. My approach may or may not help others.

 

[7bridges]

The more embeded in your hands your playing is the easier the vocals will be. Check out video of Jack Bruce, Geddy Lee, Chris Squire, Timothy B. Schmit and Tiran Porter. They cover a wide range of styles and one thing they have in common is that they are playing their parts without any sign that they're consciously thinking about what they're playing. Having the playing side of your performance nailed frees your brain to deal with the syncopation and timing differences between the instrument and the vocal.

This is key for me. I sing both lead and backup harmonies and I found that if you watch the pros, in many cases, it seems as if they are ignoring their bass. It just isn't there. As stated above, the bass playing needs to be on auto pilot. I listen to the bass when I'm singing -- to hear if something is off -- but rarely look at it. Know the material and just relax! That too makes a big difference.

 

[2F/2F]

Practice, repetition, etc. is all it takes.

I sing backup a lot. A lot of it isn't really rhythmically similar to the bass part. When it's tough to get, it means I have to practice it at home till I get it.

The bass playing is second nature to me by now, though. I rarely have to be acutely conscious of what I'm playing. That helps a lot. So maybe getting to that point with your bass will actually help you sing the right rhythms, indirectly.

 

[Swampish]

Here are my notes/chicken scratch for Sweet Emotion. Please ignore this if it doesn't make sense.

I find helpful to visualize everything. My approach may or may not help others.

Makes sense and seems straightforward when indicated like that, for me, it's the execution and obviously the suggestions about breaking it down into manageable bits as well as repetition combined with mastering the bass and the vocal parts individually are key to making that execution more feasible.

 

[Swampish]

My approach when it comes to singing and playing bass is to first know the bass part inside and out so you can play it without thinking about it - learn the vocal part jsut by itself - sing along with the song until you can do that without thinking - then just put the two pieces together. Not rocket science but I dont believe there are any shortcuts either - just rinse and repeat.

Good point.

 

[Sam Evans]

Bass and vocals is hard, much harder than the typical rhythm guitar strumming + vocals that a lot of lead singers get away with ... I don't know if this will help, but there's a trick I use when learning a new song on piano, which has a similar issue (right and left hands with very different parts). As per others above, learning each separately perfectly is essential: esp. with the bass, get to where you can play it without even thinking about it much - even go so far as to let your mind wander as you play. Then work on putting them together VERY slowly, to see where the rhythms of notes in each part line up and where they don't. Get used to thinking of yourself as either playing and singing notes at the very same time - which should be easy! - or playing and singing at different times - which should be easy! - then it's just combinations of the two - which should be easy! Finally, and back to piano for a sec, when one hand is doing something more complicated than the other, I tend to look at that hand, but then still "hear" the other hand (that I'm not looking at) in my head. I'm not sure of the science of it, but it's like I'm engaging the visual parts of my brain for one and the aural parts for the other, rather than trying to do two different things with just one part of the brain, if that makes any sense ... In your case, perhaps looking at (or just feeling) the bass part, purposefully trying NOT to hear it (so it doesn't lead your vocals astray, which you mentioned is an issue), and hearing the vocal part, would work similarly for you and your brain.
Hope that helps, and good luck!

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

Another approach I have found helpful: Simplify your basslines when you practice your singing. Make them really easy, just the chord changes, just quarters. When you can do that perfectly, start to make variations on your basslines. One step at a time.

 

[PaulJSmith]

You'll perhaps be relieved to know that Geddy Lee has this same problem. Heard him in an interview long ago talking about how hard he has to work on learning to sing and play the new Rush songs. He starts by walking around the house just playing them for weeks. Then, he walks around singing them for another few weeks. Then, he spends yet another few weeks putting the two together.

Ingrain each part and make it second nature, and they'll be a lot easier to combine.

 

[Renaissance]

I am very much a novice at playing and singing but I make more progress when I sing at rehearsal as opposed to just playing and singing when I practice alone.

I little bit of "under the gun" motivation I suppose.

 

[dougjwray]

A big thing for me was finally letting go of the identity "really good bass player" when singing. I had to put the bass on autopilot (as others have said) and face the fact that I might mess it up here or there while delivering the vocal. The vocal is going to be the focal point for the audience (like it or not) and that's where your energy and attention must go.
There's also a big difference between singing some background harmonies and singing lead. To sing lead, you have to powerfully "sell" the song, and that means proper breathing, posture, dynamics, enunciation, attitude... it's not easy.
Jack Bruce was my favorite singing bass player. He COULD actually "tell a story" with his bass while simultaneously doing some virtuoso singing.